sexton Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 njjeeper, I'm working on a Ferret right now. Can I help clarify this? If so, what exactly do you want me to check? Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjeeper Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 Richard, no worries at all! Even though I just started this project, you have already been a great help. Malcolm, you could have a look at the passenger side drive shafts and tell me what direction they turn when the road wheels are turning forward. Look from the perspective of the back of the Ferret so you are looking past the rear box toward the front. What direction do the flanges turn? Thanks again everyone!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Malcolm, you could have a look at the passenger side drive shafts and tell me what direction they turn when the road wheels are turning forward. Look from the perspective of the back of the Ferret so you are looking past the rear box toward the front. What direction do the flanges turn? Not sure what you mean by passenger side as I don't know if you are LH or RH drive. No matter, I'll check what happens on both sides and report back tomorrow. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 22 LBDR Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 You are confusing the hell out of your self. I have built a few Ferrets now so I will try and part some knowledge your direction. First of all you cant rebuild the Bevel box "wrong". There are only two gears meshed together in the box. in order to get the output shaft to rotate the wrong direction you would have to place one of the gears on the opposed side to the other one. This in physically imposable to do due to the shape of the casting. If the box was stripped down and rebuilt, the worst he could have done is shimmed it incorrectly, this will cause extensive ware. I don't understand why anyone would go to the trouble of dissembling a box to such an extent. If you brake one NOS ones are still available. The only time I have needed to open one up was to re-shim the input gear, very easy to do. If the bevel boxes are fitted with the air breather facing up and the input shafts are all pointing at the gearbox then its fine, as far as rotation of shafts go anyway. I hope this reassures you a bit. Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Ross, I have spent too much time on Dingos of late and was thinking of how the bevel gear is moved either side of the pinion. Now it comes back to me re. the Ferret, but, I well remember when working on these for the army that the boxes are two specific pairs, Front LH and Rear RH is one pair, and Front RH and Rear LH the other pair. Just checked the parts book and the casings are different part numbers depending on which location they are fitted. Cannot recollect if the difference is the size of the plug holes, top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 njjeeper, I checked a Ferret today. Standing behind the Ferret looking forward, F/R lever selected Forward or Reverse (it doesn't matter), turning wheels in forward direction: - the drive shaft running from the transfer case to the LH front bevel box turns CCW, - the drive shaft running from the transfer case to the RH front bevel box turns CW, - the drive shaft running from the transfer case to the LH rear bevel box turns CW, - the drive shaft running from the transfer case to the RH rear bevel box turns CCW. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Malcolm, brilliant, clear, precise and very very useful. That is going on the wall in my shop. Thank you. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Glad to help, Robin. An important update: I just noticed in the manual that the sketch above ONLY works for Mk 1 and 2 Ferrets. (Ours are all Mk 1's.) The design of the planetary gearset in the wheel hubs of Mk 1's and 2's reverses the tracta joint rotational direction so the wheels turn opposite to the tracta joint shafts. In other words, the tracta joint shaft between a bevel box and a wheel is turning the opposite way to the wheel. On the Mk 3 to Mk 5 Ferrets, the manual says the planetary gear arrangement in the hubs was redesigned so the wheels rotated in the same direction as the tracta joint shafts. The "ingenious" way of dealing with this was to change the F on the Forward/Reverse lever to R, and vice versa. So you pull the lever back to go forward. njjeeper, if you have a Mk 1 or 2, the sketch above is correct. If you have a Mk 3, 4, or 5, you need to reverse all the directions. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 22 LBDR Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Glad to help, Robin. An important update: I just noticed in the manual that the sketch above ONLY works for Mk 1 and 2 Ferrets. (Ours are all Mk 1's.) The design of the planetary gearset in the wheel hubs of Mk 1's and 2's reverses the tracta joint rotational direction so the wheels turn opposite to the tracta joint shafts. In other words, the tracta joint shaft between a bevel box and a wheel is turning the opposite way to the wheel. On the Mk 3 to Mk 5 Ferrets, the manual says the planetary gear arrangement in the hubs was redesigned so the wheels rotated in the same direction as the tracta joint shafts. The "ingenious" way of dealing with this was to change the F on the Forward/Reverse lever to R, and vice versa. So you pull the lever back to go forward. njjeeper, if you have a Mk 1 or 2, the sketch above is correct. If you have a Mk 3, 4, or 5, you need to reverse all the directions. Malcolm Thats interesting, they must have put a second set of reduction gears in the hub, the same as is in the Saracen, Saladin etc. Probably to reduce the speed created by the larger size wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexton Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Actually, the writeup in the manual says, on the Mk 1 and 2, the annulus gear is integral with the rotating hub, and the non-rotating planet gear set is mounted on the hub carrier. On the Mk 3/4/5, the situation is reversed; the annulus gear is supported by the fixed hub carrier, and the planet gear set rotates with the hub. This reverses the direction of rotation. Sounds like quite a significant mod. The manual has some diagrams to show this but they are very poor quality. Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 22 LBDR Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Actually, the writeup in the manual says, on the Mk 1 and 2, the annulus gear is integral with the rotating hub, and the non-rotating planet gear set is mounted on the hub carrier. On the Mk 3/4/5, the situation is reversed; the annulus gear is supported by the fixed hub carrier, and the planet gear set rotates with the hub. This reverses the direction of rotation. Sounds like quite a significant mod. The manual has some diagrams to show this but they are very poor quality. Malcolm I wonder why they bothered to go to this trouble. It has to be related to the size of the wheels. I wonder did the gear size change in order to compensate for the larger wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It sounds more like the setup in the Saracen and is probably related to gearing down the final drive to compensate for the much larger circumference of the tyres on the "big wheel" Ferrets. I dare say that they raided the parts bin for the bits they needed, as it doesn't make sense to engineer a new solution to an existing problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 The Mk4 and Mk5 had a much more reliable epicyclic hub reduction gear. The Mk1 and Mk2 set up was cause for concern in service as the planet carrier secured the wheel bearings and it was apt to shear the securing bolts and dowels, resulting in a hub loss. Checks had to be made at 500 mile intervals. There would be a difference in the gear ratio, but it was probably seen as a way of redesigning the hub. No way was it "bits from the parts box". When the CVR(W) Fox was introduced this had a similar hub to the Mk4 and 5, but parts were not interchangeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njjeeper Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Excellent drawing and solves the question once and for all! Thanks so much everyone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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