question When Min of Supply was wound up did site vehicles swap to military registrations?

[Cheshire Steve]

Boscombe Down, Farnborough and a host of other research sites like FVRDE were MoS sites until 1959 when the MoS was wound up. These sites used civilian registrations for their own vehicles. After the MoS was wound up, as far as I can tell, new vehicles on those sites got military registrations - certainly I have seen a 1971 photo of fire tenders at Boscombe and they were all military plated (AA, AF and DM plates). I wonder if those with civilian registrations were either disposed of (seems unlikely for special vehicles like airfield fire tenders), or continued with civilian plates, or went back onto military plates. Presumably photos taken in the 60s could answer this - if any exist - maybe of fire tenders as they get photographed a lot on open days.

 

My suspicion is that they continued on civvy plates, as there is a surviving Land Rover delivered new to Boscombe Down in 1958, which appears to have carried the same UXMnn civilian registration from new right up 1984 when in civilian hands. But that could have been disposed of in 1959, so pretty inconclusive.

[Richard Farrant]

Boscombe Down, Farnborough and a host of other research sites like FVRDE were MoS sites until 1959 when the MoS was wound up. These sites used civilian registrations for their own vehicles. After the MoS was wound up, as far as I can tell, new vehicles on those sites got military registrations - certainly I have seen a 1971 photo of fire tenders at Boscombe and they were all military plated (AA, AF and DM plates). I wonder if those with civilian registrations were either disposed of (seems unlikely for special vehicles like airfield fire tenders), or continued with civilian plates, or went back onto military plates. Presumably photos taken in the 60s could answer this - if any exist - maybe of fire tenders as they get photographed a lot on open days.

 

My suspicion is that they continued on civvy plates, as there is a surviving Land Rover delivered new to Boscombe Down in 1958, which appears to have carried the same UXMnn civilian registration from new right up 1984 when in civilian hands. But that could have been disposed of in 1959, so pretty inconclusive.

 

I remember the old Scammell Pioneer breakdown from Boscombe Down was still on civvy plates in the 80's, it used to come out to GDSF and other shows in the area.

[ted angus]

Boscombe Down, Farnborough and a host of other research sites like FVRDE were MoS sites until 1959 when the MoS was wound up. These sites used civilian registrations for their own vehicles. After the MoS was wound up, as far as I can tell, new vehicles on those sites got military registrations - certainly I have seen a 1971 photo of fire tenders at Boscombe and they were all military plated (AA, AF and DM plates). I wonder if those with civilian registrations were either disposed of (seems unlikely for special vehicles like airfield fire tenders), or continued with civilian plates, or went back onto military plates. Presumably photos taken in the 60s could answer this - if any exist - maybe of fire tenders as they get photographed a lot on open days.

 

My suspicion is that they continued on civvy plates, as there is a surviving Land Rover delivered new to Boscombe Down in 1958, which appears to have carried the same UXMnn civilian registration from new right up 1984 when in civilian hands. But that could have been disposed of in 1959, so pretty inconclusive.

 

 

Steve, the demise of the MoS led to a mass of re-organisation, Some establishments went to the 3 functional armed forces ministries, i.e, the Admiralty, the WD or the Air Ministry; Some went directly to the Army , RN or RAF. Some vehicles were reregistered with military plates in these circumstances.

 

However Others passed to newly formed Ministries and this was the case at Boscombe Down, Farnborough and its outstations and the Pershore/Malvern establishments. This was 1959 from MoS to the Min of Aviation. 1967 Ministry of Technology. 1970 Ministry of Aviation Supply and in 1971 the MoD (PE), throughout they continued on the UXM PGK etc plates but as vehicles bearing these former MoS reg blocks were replaced, CC registrations were used. On occasions such as Air shows, Military crash tenders and other vehicles provided support to the host airfield's fleet.

 

Be interested to see your 1971 photo especially the DM as there were only the 3 Army Fire service DP2s with DM reg numbers and photos are few and far between.

TEd

Edited June 7, 2015 by ted angus

[wally dugan]

when the MOS was wound up the vehicles carrying civilian registration numbers that remained in use continued to carry those numbers

[Cheshire Steve]

Thanks guys - that all seems to make sense, seems I came to the right place.

 

Regarding the DM reg at Boscombe in 1971 it is 40DM22 I spotted here (not my photo) :

[ted angus]

The DM registered DP2 was Middle wallop's, the MK5 crash tender and the ACRT are both from RAF Andover; The guy's description of the tenders that belonged to Boscombe are spot on but this picture is I believe actually ACC Middle Wallop - in addition in the background is the rear of a Green Goddess the AFS/HO ones were all back in storage by 1971 but the Army still had a large number of their lookalikes in service as domestic tenders and Middle Wallop had one . I have a similar view taken some years later- ??????????????????????? will have to do some more digging

TED

[Sean N]

... this picture is I believe actually ACC Middle Wallop

 

The hangars look like Middle Wallop's, and I'm not sure the hangars and fire station are in the right relative positions for Boscombe Down.

[Cheshire Steve]

Looks like the photo was a red herring as I don't think Middle Wallop was ever MoS so I don't suppose they ever had civilian registered emergency vehicles ...

 

I can see this is the place to come if you have an unidentified photo.

[gritineye]

when the MOS was wound up the vehicles carrying civilian registration numbers that remained in use continued to carry those numbers

 

That would seem to be correct Wally.

 

There where six Scammell Explorer with civy NGY number used by FVRDE, not sure if they all retained them but at least two did.

 

The one I owned NGY 584, is ex FVRDE was sold off in 1993 with that number.

[ted angus]

The hangars look like Middle Wallop's, and I'm not sure the hangars and fire station are in the right relative positions for Boscombe Down.

 

Exactly my thought attached is a slightly later shot taken at MW for comparison;

MW was an RAF station in WW2 the original fire station was a 2 bay standard expansion build positioned to the right of the tower when viewed FROM airside. Post WW2 it was replaced by a 3 bay, double depth building to the left of the tower, that build is now replaced by a new station on the same site.

No never MoS - however they too had open days and airshows and in my collection I have a picture of the emergency serviced posed pre event including AAC , RAF RN, local authority, an appliance from either Boscombe or Farnborough ( can't read the reg, and 2 from the USAF.

 

Boscombe now have a new central fire station adjacent to the hardened shelter site, so I don't know what has happened to the station near the main entrance I will contact some of my fellow fire cabbages to see if they have a picture

TED

[wally dugan]

l have pictures taken from the sixties seventies eighties and nineties of vehicles still been used with civilian

numbers like UXM LYN KYK and LGY well after 1959 l will look up your SCAMMELL It should been in the files

 

 

REGARDS WALLY

[Cheshire Steve]

I wonder if new vehicles continued to get civilian numbers for a while later after MoS, especially at Farnborough. I was looking in the 'Duty Done' listing of civilian government vehicles and found ALFnnnB numbers associated with RAE Farnborough, also ALNnnnB, CYYnnnC, and DLEnnnC. So I suppose that takes us up to 1965. There is no mention of Boscombe in that listing, but the coverage is far from comprehensive, as it was initially focussed on the Civil Defence and AFS.

 

As there is a small chance my Land Rover was used at Boscombe under a civilian number having been struck off in 1958, I would be interested in any pictures of site vehicles there in 50s and 60s and what reg numbers they were using.

[ted angus]

Firstly, yes they continued for some years to get reg numbers from blocks reserved for Ministries. However instead of whole blocks being allocated, blocks were later shared between Ministries.

 

Re Duty Done- you will note from the introduction that the databases are a continuation of those first published in The Green Machine (GM) GM set out to record the vehicles used mainly by the Home Office but also including the vehicles of other Ministries, that were procured for the purpose of Civil Defence ie CD AFS Food flying squads police mobile columns etc.

However, When Barry Holliss and I set out to continue building on the GM database we found from the Ruddington sales records that many registration blocks were later being shared by 2 or more ministries.( Some of which you have highlighted ) As we had access to the records we decided to expand the databases beyond vehicles procured for the functions of the Civil Defence act 1949. Hence the inclusion of registrations borne by vehicles at such establishments as Farnborough, Boscombe,Purshore etc ( e.g. the massive strategic reserve fleet held by the MPBW in the ***FUW block which was shared with the Home Office.) . Whilst such inclusion does not give a comprehensive list of these it does provide a starting point for those interested in fleet databases of non CD involved Ministries. Pictures of Boscombe vehicles are few and far between, it might be worth looking at old Pathe news films of such things as the TSR 2 flying at Boscombe and the Farnborough Airshows to see examples of vehicles used . What was the reg number of your LR

regards TED

sunday name- E.B. Angus BEM co- author "Duty Done".

[Cheshire Steve]

Hi Ted, I bought the Green Machine CD from John Thompson, and then bought the Duty Done CD later from the FBS - and its very useful, though when I search the database I don't get any hits for Boscombe - though plenty for Farnborough.

 

One of the first 88" Landys, 83BR48 was struck off to Ministry of Supply in August 1958 after just over 2 years service, has EMER specified internal lashing points required from 1957 for air transportation. Combination of MoS and air transportation in 1956-1958 suggests Boscombe to me. It has had serious damage at some stage, so I suspect it got bent by MoS and then they sold it, e.g. via Ruddington - though haven't been able to get my hands on the Ruddington records to see if it appears.

 

Remote possibility that MoS may have kept it on and given it a civvy reg, and I was curious to know what happened to such vehicles when the MoS was wound up. However, pretty sure that it was disposed of - as there's only one thin coat of army green over the original black chassis paint.