john_g_kearney Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I was lucky enough to obtain this German soldier's snapshot recently. The tank is obviously a British cruiser, but the location is a mystery. The church in the right background looks vaguely Russian to me, but the nearest railway wagon is French. It could be one of those re-gauged for the Soviet track gauge, of course, but using such a valuable wagon in the Soviet Union to shift rubble does not seem likely. So is the location France? I read an article in one of the mv magazines recently about British cruiser tanks captured and re-used by the German Army. But now I can't find it. Can anybody remind me please in which mag and which issue it was in please? John. Edited July 4, 2014 by john_g_kearney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoranWC51 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The Soviets received a good number of British tanks as Lend-Lease aid during WW2. It might very well be one of those. Goran N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ozs Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) Goran - I think that one is an Valentine (Infantry Mk III) rather than a cruiser. Valentine used the same running gear as Cruiser A9 and Cruiser A10 - note the gap between the two sets of three road wheels, and the first and last road wheels are a little larger than the rest. I think the Russians had some thousands of Valentines but I believe almost all the cruisers except the pre-war A9 and A10 had Christie running gear as seen in the original post. The mantlet certainly looks more like Valentine to me. Iain Edited July 3, 2014 by g0ozs Fix my bad grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchinuk Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I was lucky enough to obtain this German soldier's snapshot recently. The tank is obviously a British cruiser, but the location is a mystery. The church in the right background looks vaguely Russian to me, but the nearest railway wagon is French. It could be one of those re-gauged for the Soviet track gauge, of course, but using such a valuable wagon in the Soviet Union to shift rubble does not seem likely. So is the location France? I read an article in one of the mv magazines recently about British cruiser tanks captured and re-uased by the German Army. But now I can't find it. Can any remind me please in which mag and which issue it was in please? John. [ATTACH=CONFIG]93747[/ATTACH] The Germans obtained a number of A13s in France after Dunkirk. These were remanufactured (including the fitting of German tracks). These were designated 'Pz.Kpfw. Mk.IV 744(e)', and were allocated to the 18.Pz.Div, Operation Barbarossa, June 1941. About 15 were pressed into service, so it could be Russia. HTH jh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpacaandy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Thats pretty interesting, here is a utube picture vid of german captured 'Pz.Kpfw. Mk.IV 744 The Germans obtained a number of A13s in France after Dunkirk. These were remanufactured (including the fitting of German tracks). These were designated 'Pz.Kpfw. Mk.IV 744(e)', and were allocated to the 18.Pz.Div, Operation Barbarossa, June 1941. About 15 were pressed into service, so it could be Russia. HTH jh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoranWC51 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I know that the tank is a Valentine. I used the only photo of a Soviet/British tank that I happened to have, to make a point. The German's did use a large amount of captured equipment. One can only wonder how the managed to keep all these hundreds of different types of vehicles, from every single country they conquered, running and supplying them with spare parts. They did, of course, have access to plenty of wrecks that they could scrounge parts from, but still. Goran N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Many thanks for your replies. I have been looking at more photographs of the A13 in German service (the you-tube video was most useful in that regard), and the tanks seem to have had their twin smoke grenade tubes removed from the side of the turret very early on. As the burned out wreck in my photo still has its smoke grenade tubes, and no jerry can racks as the Germans fitted to some if not all of their A13s for Barbarossa, I reckon that the location is France. That would tie in with the French railway wagon (it is lettered PLM, ie Chemins de fer de Paris a Lyon et a la Mediterranee). It would seem then that the tank was serving with the BEF when it was knocked out. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 There must be more than just 'knocked out'. Note there is no track on the right hand side but track can be seen round the left hand sprocket, Also there is a track laid on the engine deck, possible that it had broken a track which is then placed on the rear prior to back loading on the railway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pearson Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Isn't this a complete wreck? There is no rubber at all on the wheels and the springs seem to have completely collapsed, at least on the right hand side. Track is neatly in sections on the back deck but the burn seems very even, not like an ammunition or petrol fire from inside the vehicle. Maybe this tank was in a French rail yard awaiting backloading for repair when it was caught in an air raid and absolutely completely burnt out and the buildings around wrecked. Is/was there a sizeable Russian or Greek Orthodox community in the Paris area to account for the church??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 (edited) I read an article in one of the mv magazines recently about British cruiser tanks captured and re-used by the German Army. But now I can't find it. Can anybody remind me please in which mag and which issue it was in please? John. I can't help with the magazine (or the location of your posted photo, unfortunately), but there are quite a number of photos of captured & reused A13 Cruisers here (including with Panzer-Abt. (F) 100 in Russia from page 3): http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/uk/A13_MkII/a-13_MkII.htm Also Cruiser wrecks being collected by the Germans here (Post Number: #275 onwards): http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80610&start=270 Kevin Edited July 4, 2014 by 11th Armoured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Surely the kindest thing for the Germans to have done was simply put the A13s out of their misery. The british crews derided them for poor reliability and lack of spare parts, god only knows how the Germans managed to muddle through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Interesting links, many thanks. The photograph of the A13 being used for an exercise in connection with Operation Sealion was particularly interesting. It can't have been much of a morale-booster for Panzer crews to discover that they were to be issued with second-hand A13s... John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I read an article in one of the mv magazines recently about British cruiser tanks captured and re-used by the German Army. But now I can't find it. Can anybody remind me please in which mag and which issue it was in please? John, just had a look and it was in Classic Military Vehicle Magazine, Issue 154 March. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g_kearney Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Many thanks, Scott - I'll seek it out again. I had it once but seem to have lost it... John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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