berna2vm Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hi all. I am looking at a very attractive Ford built 1942 Jeep on Ebay at the moment. I am looking for a Jeep at the moment and a Ford in preference. However the vendor states that the early Ford GPWs were built on Willys chassis. Is this correct because I thought I knew a bit about Jeeps but didn't have any knowledge of this. Could someone put me straight on this please because there are many Jeep gurus who know infinately more than myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpu121265 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Some very early GPWs were built on MB chassis - i had GPW 2177 for a while which was one. It will still have a GPW chassis number, stamped in the usal place near the n/s fr engine mount even if it on an MB chassis. I don't remember now what the cut off was but it was higher than 2177....... Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willysmb Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yup very early GPW used Willys chassis ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woa2 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I had a discussion over this with a Jeep owner some years ago, and they showed me a photo in the Ford GPW maintenance manual which showed a Willys chassis to prove the point. I heard afterwards that Ford hadn't got the supply of chassis in operation and used Willys chassis for the very early production. It will have a GPW chassis number, as my fellow Forum member stated earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Ashby Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Early GPW's were indeed built on Willys style frames from January 1942 to the end of March to mid April 1942 the exact date depending on which Ford plant (Rouge, Chester, Dallas, Louisville or Richmond) that the truck was assembled at. Louisville was the last plant to use Willys style frames. As a rule of thumb it would be fair to say that GPW frame numbers 1 to some number short of 14768 had Willys frames. As a matter of interest early GPW's were fitted with Wilson Foundry blocks as fitted to Willys up to some point as yet not determined in April 42. If its the jeep I think you are looking at I thought I saw tooling holes in the rear frame cross member, this was a Ford plant requirement to enable them to be handled on their production lines. The front bumper also had two tooling holes added some time during late April 1942. Willys never had this feature, you may wish to check that out. You should also expect to see the Ford Logo stamped into the rear body panel and no gas can carrier fitted. There are a number of other detail differences but it will depend on how much the truck has been rebuilt/messed about with. Just re-checked the photos, it does appear to have a round cross member under the rad so that is correct for willys style frame but it does appear to have tooling holes on the rear cross member see comments above. The body has the Ford logo but also has had a retro fitted gas can holder, not uncommon and was issued in late 42 as a field fit. I can't see a trailer socket which is correct for a factory scripted body. The key question to ask for is the frame number and it's position, and also if the body is a repro or original. It should have a body number on the front of the Drivers side scuttle gusset rail if it's an original Ford body. Good luck Pete Edited March 10, 2013 by Pete Ashby additional information added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berna2vm Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks guys. I knew I would find the necessary knowledge here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Ashby Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Just for completeness, although MB and GPW frames are often described as either Ford or Willys types neither company actually manufactured frames except for the very first pr production prototype tool room produced had built models form each manufacturer. Production MB's had frames manufactured by Midland, production GPW's used Murray. On balance Ford made a large number of components (including bodies up until January 1944 with the introduction of the composite body) in house reflecting their much larger organisation and manufacturing capacity. Willys on the other hand subcontracted virtually everything including bodies made by ACM and in reality acted in the role of central focus and assembly plant from their one plant in Toledo. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) , and also if the body is a repro or original. It should have a body number on the front of the Drivers side scuttle gusset rail if it's an original Ford body. [/i]Pete The description on Ebay states it is a "new Ford scripted body" pity its not an original body, a repro rather reduces its value, looks a nice Jeep otherwise Edited March 11, 2013 by Nick Johns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Ashby Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 The description on Ebay states it is a "new Ford scripted body" pity its not an original body, a repro rather reduces its value, looks a nice Jeep otherwise Missed that Nick, didn't read the blurb, agree on balance it doesn't look bad for the money worth a look. As had been said many times before the chance of finding a factory fresh jeep is very slim and I guess it always has been as virtually any jeep sold out of service anywhere in N Europe will have been rebuilt to a grater or larger extent during service let alone the 40 to 50 years of civilian abuse. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 That's interesting, I'm rebuilding from the ground up a GPW that is very late March 1942 and it is a Ford chassis. I have a 8th January 1944 Willys MB that has also had a total rebuild. The Willys chassis is far better quality than the Ford. The GPW is typical Ford save a dime sod the quality! I can pick the Ford chassis up on my own but the Willys no chance. There is even a differance between the weight of the the two engine blocks. It ain't much may be a couple of pounds. I thought I was lucky that the GPW block wasn't cracked under the dizzy hole. Instead it's cracked beteen the stud holes and the water passages. I'll get it repaired. I've got a Ford front bumper with the holes and a Willys. Again the material in the Willys is thicker. I'm amazed any early Ford GPW's survived. I have spent hours repairing the GPW chassis because of corrosion between the side rails and the stiffeners. I understand the Ford chassis was designed so that unskilled workers could be used. You need trained folks to produce good welds but anybody can rivet bits together and therefor labour costs are reduced. One thing I can say is that I now have one of each make.The Willys has been totally rebuilt from the ground up and the GPW is being rebuilt from the ground up. I've reconditioned/repaired most parts where possible. Many new parts have also been used. The GPW needing the most by a long way, and I'm still buying parts for it. It's got a repro scripted tub. The one that came with it was a composite in a very very poor state. The GPW will be as good as new when it's finished but a Willys it ain't. The Ford is my car, I shall not want another. It maketh me lie down down in damp places, it anointeth my head with oil. Yea though I walk through the valley of Willys (and Dodge), I feel no evil. For Willys is the power and the glory, forever and ever. Phil The only good Ford was a Shelby Mustang 500 and that took a Texan genuis to sort it for Ford!:laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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