Bob Grundy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I have just heard on the BBC Regional News (North West) that the raid by the 'Cockelshell Heros' operation Frankton shortened the war by 6 months. This was attributed to Churchill, one merchant ship sunk and four damaged, this using only a modicom of intelegence is totaly absurd. The raid was absolutly insignificent in its damage to the German capacity to wage war. I am of course not denigrating those brave fellows who did their very best. I will make some more enquries as to the quote from Churchill, if indeed he actally said it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Never forget the 'Soft' outcome of such raids. Equipment and manpower that could be in combat had to be diverted to gaurd facilities, and therfore were not where they could have been most use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted December 18, 2012 Author Share Posted December 18, 2012 Never forget the 'Soft' outcome of such raids. Equipment and manpower that could be in combat had to be diverted to gaurd facilities, and therfore were not where they could have been most use. Yes you have a point there, however shortening the war by 6 months ? No I will never concede that whatsoever..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 But in the best traditions of the Forum, we will argue inteligently! (I'll just get the Pick axe helm! ) The first of this type of raid was the Hardtack operations on the Channel Ilands. The direct result was Hitler went beserk and issued the 'Commando Order', that all captured raiders were executed. Wether as a single operation such as the raid on Bordeaux 'Shortened the War by six months', or the strategy as whole is debatable. But, the value of tactical sucuess in small single operations can be viewed statigically as the drip eroding the mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 A bit of media bull****. Certainly our "Cockleshell Heroes" were extremely brave, but you may aswell claim that the Dambuster's raid did the same, as that lead to deployment of more Flak guns & crew to defend these and other dams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 But it did! Not to mention the disruption , diversion of rescourse's for repair, damage to Enemy morale. Specifically in the case of the Dam buster raid, Wallis's idea for Earthquake bombs, Tallboy and Grand slam were taken seriously. Single small actions also had an effect on neuteral and non aligned countries. Media bull can be applied to give results far above there actual achivments. Beverbrook was as much of 'Carachter' (Don't want ot be censored) as Maxwell is now. He had no compunction about throwing his weight about in high circles or guilding Lilys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 There is a modern parallel in the type of asymmetric warfare we see in many trouble spots today - relatively small actions which cause minimal disruption in themselves but which have the effect of tying up large numbers of troops and large amounts of equipment to guard against them. It has proved time and again to be a very effective means of waging war when you dont have the capability to mount a traditional offensive. But Bob I tend to agree with you the 6 month quote was rhetoric! Either way they were heroes of the first order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holte999 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Going by these standards The Cockleshell Heroes, The Dam Busters, The raid on Dieppe, Sinking the Bismark and Operation Mincemeat would all together have shortened the war by 2 and a half years. Add a few more and the war would have finished before it started, which would have been nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Like changes the MOD foisted on us once. It allowed for the deployment of 2.4 personnel instead of 2. :undecided: But to look at it from the other side. One of the few times the German forces landed a Commando Force was at Granville in March 1945. The result was panic and loss of morale in the American forces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Raid Edited December 20, 2012 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Like changes the MOD foisted on us once. It allowed for the deployment of 2.4 personnel instead of 2. :undecided: But to look at it from the other side. One of the few times the German forces landed a Commando Force was at Granville in March 1945. The result was panic and loss of morale in the American forces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Raid Never heard of this before very bold action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 It was a good job that Eisenhower moved his SHAEF HQ out of the town by then- as this could have caused even more panic than it did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Never heard of this before very bold action. Thed Victor's write the history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifficer Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 There is a modern parallel in the type of asymmetric warfare we see in many trouble spots today - relatively small actions which cause minimal disruption in themselves but which have the effect of tying up large numbers of troops and large amounts of equipment to guard against them. It has proved time and again to be a very effective means of waging war when you dont have the capability to mount a traditional offensive. But Bob I tend to agree with you the 6 month quote was rhetoric! Either way they were heroes of the first order. Hi Timbo Small unit raids certainly concentrate the mind, constant pin prick raids tie up recources, troops & equipment. The IRA certainly got my attention!! All these operations added to the the Drip Drip effect untill we where ready to hit hard. Interestingly if you have the urge you can canoe up the Gironde to Bordeaux as Hasler & Sparks did then you can TAB down the Frankton Trail to Spain for some tappas. A couple of Marines did the whole trip a couple of years ago. Many canoe clubs in UK still compete for the Hasler Trophy each year in memory of Blondie Hasler. Regards Robin (Artifficer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Watched the movie a week or so ago on BBC. In colour, and it was from 1957. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 You just have to look at the grief we are having with IED's at the mo to see how well you can tie up an army:-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 You just have to look at the grief we are having with IED's at the mo to see how well you can tie up an army:-( There is one thing worse than finding an IED on a search, and that is NOT finding one! Plays merry hell with the nerves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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