Info on NI era radio equipment.

[tyler]

I am trying to find out info on the radio and comms equipment that was used in vehicles in NI during the time my Shorland would have served.

 

I have found some info with the help of Clive but not enough to pin down the specific equipment.

 

This is what I know so far:

“The switching for the Pye Westminster & intercom was done in a die cast box adaptation fixed on a plywood board mounted vertically behind the driver.”

 

"As for the original comms. There was one VHF whip on the rear off side. I am not sure what the radio was, Commers & Pigs used Pye Vanguards on 108 Mc/s.”

 

“The Shorlands went into storage & were vandalized. Whatever radios they had they were removed. The UDR initially used Pye Bantams wedged into the dash, then A31 with the whip up through the turret. Then when the batches of Mk 3 Shorlands appeared Pye Westminster’s with an intercom system switched in."

 

Can anyone tell me what manufacture of the A31 would this be? Clansman etc?

 

And is there any other designations given to this equipment? As I have looked on eBay and found clansman 351/352 and I was wondering if these were the same equipment?

 

Also would the intercom function on these radios have been used or would a separate system be used? And would this have been used by all 3 crew or just commander and gunner etc?

 

The only radio/comms stuff in the Shorland was two boxes behind the driver and the aerial base on the back.

The plug pictured has UK PAT 990416 on it.

 

Please excuse my lack of knowledge when it comes to radios and comms equipment.

Thanks

Tyler.

[fv1609]

Tyler as you can see it is not mounted on plywood, that was a slip in my memory as my Vanguard was mounted on plywood over the wheel arch. That was a RUC arrangement, although mine was subsequently issued to the UDR it seems not to have been fitted with the arrangement you have, which became standard for the two batches of Mk 3 Shorlands issued to the UDR.

 

 

I think you will find that there is just an audio amplifier for the intercom in the Eddystone diecast box. There were minimal EMERs issued for Shorlands but there is some coverage in an E & MEI issued in 1974 which I will try to find.

 

My original reference to RUC Commers on 108 Mc/s is again a slip in memory it was a little below 88 Mc/s. The point being that people could just tune their VHF radios to the end of the scale & hear advance warning of the water cannon etc

 

The small multiway plug you have is for a Pye Westminster.

[Chris Suslowicz]

I am trying to find out info on the radio and comms equipment that was used in vehicles in NI during the time my Shorland would have served.

 

I have found some info with the help of Clive but not enough to pin down the specific equipment.

 

This is what I know so far:

“The switching for the Pye Westminster & intercom was done in a die cast box adaptation fixed on a plywood board mounted vertically behind the driver.”

 

"As for the original comms. There was one VHF whip on the rear off side. I am not sure what the radio was, Commers & Pigs used Pye Vanguards on 108 Mc/s.”

 

“The Shorlands went into storage & were vandalized. Whatever radios they had they were removed. The UDR initially used Pye Bantams wedged into the dash, then A31 with the whip up through the turret. Then when the batches of Mk 3 Shorlands appeared Pye Westminster’s with an intercom system switched in."

 

Can anyone tell me what manufacture of the A31 would this be? Clansman etc?

 

And is there any other designations given to this equipment? As I have looked on eBay and found clansman 351/352 and I was wondering if these were the same equipment?

 

Also would the intercom function on these radios have been used or would a separate system be used? And would this have been used by all 3 crew or just commander and gunner etc?

 

The only radio/comms stuff in the Shorland was two boxes behind the driver and the aerial base on the back.

The plug pictured has UK PAT 990416 on it.

 

Please excuse my lack of knowledge when it comes to radios and comms equipment.

Thanks

Tyler.

 

All of the junction boxes and connectors shown are Larkspur vintage, so you can rule Clansman out for a start!

 

I'm fairly sure the A31 never existed, and if it did it would be a portable HF radio, so this is a typo for either the WS31, or much more likely the SR A41 manpack set "with the whip up through the turret".

 

Most of the shown junction boxes can be cleaned up, though you may have to transplant the contents of the diecast boxes into a new outer - they are still available in places.

 

How big is the aerial base? It could be civilian or military, and is probably still available as surplus.

 

Chris.

[fv1609]

much more likely the SR A41 manpack set "with the whip up through the turret".

Yes A41

[tyler]

Hi thanks for the replies and info.

 

Does anyone know where the best place to find this equipment for sale, I have had a look butcant find any equipment, ebay has only plugs etc, i found armyradio.com but I dont know if any of this would be ok/needed for the setup.

 

Apart from the items in my pics:

Interconnection Box 4 way Number 4 was the primary LT distribution unit

audio amplifier for the intercom in the Eddystone diecast box

 

and the radio what other items do i need e.g. wiring/leads/cables boxes and headsets etc?

 

Would a A42 be suitable if i cant find a A41?

 

And what type of prices should these go for?

 

Thanks.

 

Tyler.

[fv1609]

Tyler you need to decide what era you want to depict.

 

If you want to look for an A41 or a Pye Bantam fine, but these were just early improvisations on the ex-RUC 'BT' registered Shorlands & the UDR Mk 3 Shorlands in the first contract 'FL'.

 

The distribution panel & intercom box that you have came a little later & were used in conjunction with a Pye Westimster. So this would have been fitted slightly later to 'FL' & straight away for the later 'GF' Shorlands.

 

I may have a spare Westminster or two.

[tyler]

Hi Clive, the reg was 77FL08 so where would it fit in terms of earlier/later FL orders/contracts and therefore what equipment would be appropriate?

 

Thanks

[AlienFTM]

Hi Clive, the reg was 77FL08 so where would it fit in terms of earlier/later FL orders/contracts and therefore what equipment would be appropriate?

 

Thanks

 

I was driving 77FM51 (a long wheelbase series 3 FFR) in 1977. It was clapped out then. You'll be looking at Larkspur radios: I'd be surprised if your beast was still going when Clansman came in (from about 1980 in BAOR) but I could be wrong.

[fv1609]

Tyler I would forget about the A41 & Bantam & use the configuration that you have & look out for a Westminster.

 

If you are getting the radio fittings sorted out does that mean the Shorland is all up & running now?

 

I heard yesterday that the Shorland bought recently on eBay in the US, has been sorted out automotively & is now running around after 15 years of lying idle.

[tyler]

Clive when you say the current configuration apart from the two boxes I have what else other than the Westminster do I need e.g. wiring/leads/cables boxes and headsets etc?

 

Also would this setup have been just radio or also intercom function?

 

And would this have been used by all 3 crew or just commander and gunner etc?

 

Thanks

 

Ps The Shorland is still requireing some work free clutch off, fit new brake cylinders and a rear crossmember and paint and find/make turret ring and seat. Its all ready to do I just need to finish off and move on the others so that I only have the Shorland. But takes time as have no workshop/garage.

 

Must have missed that ebay Shorland as always on the hunt for parts etc.

Edited November 1, 2012 by tyler
forgetfulness

[fv1609]

Must have missed that ebay Shorland as always on the hunt for parts etc.

 

It was in the US. The description has a number of errors you'll probably spot. I'll answer the other points later when I have found the E&MEI

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-RHD-LAND-ROVER-4x4-MILITARY-SHORLAND-ARMORED-PATROL-WHALE-TAIL-TURRET-MK1-/280967442977?forcev4exp=true

[tyler]

Hi Clive, thanks for the info and help its much appreciated.

There seems to be a few types of Pye Westminster E.G. two way or transceiver etc, with different model numbers:

Westminster Series W15/W20/W25/W30 etc

 

Which one would be correct?

 

You also said that you had a spare westminster or two in an earlier post, I would be very interested if this is the case.

 

Thanks.

[fv1609]

The Army had AM & FM versions, dash mount & remote mounted.

 

The majority of traffic in NI was FM. Shorlands used the dash mounted W15FM mounted on the metal plate you have. I have a couple of AM ones for certain they look the same as FM. But I don't know what accessories I have. Where are you? I am near Salisbury.

[tyler]

I am based in Cambridgeshire, I won't be using it so being AM or FM doesn't really matter, and I can always swap it with a FM version if i ever come across or find one to increase the accuracy of the vehicle display.

[fv1609]

At last I have found the E&MEI which is quite a rare document.

 

It is dated Dec 1974 and introduces an intercom to provide driver/commander communications in all UDR Mk 3 Shorlands.

 

Interestingly it refers to Pye Westminster/Bantam installations. I'm surprised that the Bantam continued in use for so long as it only had a RF output of 1 watt.

 

I was once told prior to this the commander had a hole cut in his helmet by his right ear to facilitate the earpiece for the telephone type handset for the radio & to hear the driver. The driver had a hole in his helmet over his left ear to hear his commander. The gunner seemed to have been out of the loop as it were.

[tyler]

Thanks for the perseverance Clive, no doubt it was the last place you looked as is always the case when you want something.

 

So the hole in the left side of the drivers helmet was that for a headset of just so the driver could hear the commands without the helmet covering his ear?

 

Also that leads on to another query I had, what types helmets were they wearing MK3s or AFV type helmets?

 

Does the E&MEI give any info on the Larkspur stuff?

 

Thanks.

 

Ps, I am still interested in the Westminster as Bantams seem just as hard (if not harder) to find than the Westminsters from the looks of it.

 

Sorry for picking your brain so much )

[g0ozs]

Clive, Tyler

 

I think I have a Pye Westminster service manual somewhere if you end up needing to copy it.

 

The model numbers were W + Power + Modulation type so W15AM was 15W AM and W30FM was 30W FM. Because all of the individual stages of the transmitter and receiver were separate small printed circuit boards Pye could make an infinite number of variations of AM, FM and power output to order.

 

I dont think I have one left now - I will remember you if I do come across one - it seems like last year but must be 20 since they were in piles 10 high at radio rallies !

 

Regards

 

Iain

[fv1609]

Iain thank you for the offer but I'm ok for the Pye service manuals & have the EMERs.

 

I liked dismantling the QRO versions of Pye stuff with the QQZO3-20A which was very nice for /M being the quick heat version of the QQVO3-20A. My regret was there didn't seem to be a quick heat version of the QQVO6-40A?

[tyler]

Hi, Any one know if this commanders mic would be suitable for the equipment/ setup in the Shorland?

 

Thanks.