Land rover Series 1 questions

[David I]

Hi All,

 

I was offered a Land Rover the other night for a reasonable price(I think), but dont know much about the series 1. It has been sitting in a barn for the last six years, and the chassis is in need of welding(as with all Land Rover, I think).

 

What I know about it is that it was a 1952 model, ex Military, full canvas tilt, and that it is fitted with an "engine driven" (PTO?) winch. It has traces of desert paint on it. I have not seen it, and have no numbers.

 

So to my questions: I take it that it would be an 80 inch model, and would have a small engine? How practical are these vehicles for modern ownership? Are spares available in the same way as later models?

 

Is the fitment of a winch unusual, and what would a winch equipped vehicle have been used for?

 

Any thoughts welcome.

 

Dave.

[antarmike]

I can't remember the changeover date from 1600cc to 2,000 cc but my 1953 80" had the 2 litre....

 

Memory tells me 1948 to 1951 had the 1.6 litre engine but 1952/ and 53 80 inchers had the 2 litre engine.

 

Need a chassis number probably to be sure of engine size.

 

I gave up running mine because of constant valve seat failures even running on the 2 star available at the time. I suppose hardened valve seats could be fitted, but with standard valve seats you will need a Lead Replacement additive that actually works.

 

Winch is probably the Fairey 5000 drum winch, and as far as I know was never standard fitment on Military spec vehicles. Some early Series had the Turner front bumper Drum winch, but these weren't PTO driven, (ie not driven through the gearbox) Instead had a disconnectable drive from a modified started dog on the front of the crank.

Edited November 14, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Change from 1600 to 2000 was August 1951.

 

Or so this site( http://www.series123.com/s1history.html )says.

Edited November 14, 2010 by antarmike

[Tony B]

Still very practical vehicle. If it hasn't been messed about then a real find. A lot have been re-engined and chopped about as off roaders.Usual caveats, check bulkhead and chassis for rot etc. I'd bite the hand off for it. Check the door tops, there are often various numbers and markings just painted straight over.

[David I]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the promp replies.

 

Sounds like it might not be such a bargain if its not practical to use when its finished.

 

You say that the winch would not be a standard fit? Would that mean that this is something added once the vehicle came out of service, or that it might have been limited issue e g REME?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Dave.

[Tony B]

If you don't want it please pass on details! :tup:::flowers:

[antarmike]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the promp replies.

 

Sounds like it might not be such a bargain if its not practical to use when its finished.

 

You say that the winch would not be a standard fit? Would that mean that this is something added once the vehicle came out of service, or that it might have been limited issue e g REME?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Dave.

 

If it is the Fairey 5000 Drum winch, I don't believe it was available during series 1 production, the only fitting details I have seen are for the series 2 and later.

 

I once fitted one to an 86" series 1 but I had to chop the winch mounting around to move the winch over about an inch. Only then would the propshaft clear the Sump/ crankshaft joint on the series 1.

 

I doubt Army would have gone for retro fitting a winch when the vehicle is alraedy getting old and coming up for release.

 

The normal winch to see on a Series 1 is either a Mayflower MAP Capstan (later sold badged as Fairey), or an Aeroparts Capstan winch. Both these are driven from the Crankshaft, so not what I would call PTO driven winches.

 

I had on my 80" a rear mechanical PTO and I had fitted to this the Aeroparts rear Capstan winch. This is a true PTO winch but so rare it is unlikely to be one of these. I sold mine to Dunsfold, for a museum vehicle.

 

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/87807-capstan-winches-information-required-3.html

Have a read through this link to find out a bit more on the types of Capstan winch that may have been found on series 1 land-Rovers.

 

I can't think I have ever seen a picture of a Military Series 1 that has a winch fitted. (that will get the twitchers looking through photographs, and I expect we will have 50 pictures by tomorrow night!)

Edited November 14, 2010 by antarmike

[Tony B]

Most pictures show the use of Tirfor typw winches.

[antarmike]

Here are the two possible mechanical drum winches

another possibility is it may have the Land- Rover badged Hill Lushington hydraulic winch, driven from the hydraulic PTO or the Bottom Hydraulic PTO both of which would bolt onto a series one transfer gearbox.

Edited November 26, 2010 by antarmike

[snowtracdave]

It's a good few years since I sold my 80" but it was great fun and so easy to work on - just like a big Mecchano kit . I never really had too much trouble finding bits for it . Blanchards were always a good place to try and Jacksons , although maybe not these days . Mine had the 1600 engine which was quite unusual to find even then as most had had 2 litre transplants . It was the lure of a Range Rover Commercial and not having to de ice the inside as well as the outside of the windscreen in winter that finally convinced me to sell ! Go for it . Or pass the details on 'cos there'll be a small queue of people waiting to buy if you decide not to .

[ferret1958uk]

My father is nearing the end of a full restoration on a 1952 80 inch. I have interferred with it during the whole rebuild.

 

The bolts used are BSF so be ready for that! Parts are available, but you mostly there if the one you buy is complete. Watch for the brake master cylinder (3 bolt mounting) and the fluid reservoir which looks like the S2 one, but is not split internally. Being military and ex-MoD the plate will probably read **BH** for army and **AA** for airforce. I have several images of vehicles from 1952.

 

The chassis is easy to repair if you can weld, but the rear crossmember is nice and curvy so watch out there. Rear springs are the narrow type and can be costly to replace. Bushes are cheap. Bulkhead will be your main headache as replacing the footwells is almost impossible as the steering column bolts to a plate welded to the footwell. If you take on the project then I can show photos of the work done on dads one. Full chassis rebuild, bulkhead rebuild, gearbox rebuild, replacement engine rebuild (original engine missing). Also look out for starter motor troubles. You should have the starter with the short nose on it. Later starters will not fit due to the bellhousing.

[David I]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I will see if I can find anymore about it. If Im not interested, I will post contact details for the seller.

 

Save.

[antarmike]

Also look out for starter motor troubles. You should have the starter with the short nose on it. Later starters will not fit due to the bellhousing.

Later starters fit early models if you open a hole on the Bell Housing!

[antarmike]

When I had my 80" Dunsfold claimed they could build completely new 80" from NOS stock apart from Chassis which would need to be supplied and repaired. I don't know whther their stocks of NOS still hold up, but they were heavily in series 1's

[Ivor Ramsden]

In 1989 I actually did build a military-spec 1949-50 model 80 from nearly all NOS parts for Jacksons. The bulkhead and axles were from an ex-MoD stripped-down demonstration chassis but as far as I can remember everything else was new. I rebuilt the axles with nearly everything new other than the diffs and the casings. I'd be surprised if this was still possible now. Dunsfold bought all Jacksons parts stock but I know that many of the parts that I used were the last ones that Jacksons had, which they'd kept specially.

 

Happy days ...

[antarmike]

Having said that Military Series 1 never had PTO winch, I read with interest in Winter 2010 Windscreen that there was an 86" RAF Glider Retrieval/ Recovery version described as having a Gearbox PTO driven power winch mounted in the body.