British Army Helmets need dating

[Rover8FFR]

 

 

I have what I believe to be a 1960's? British army helmet complete with scrim etc, which is in as new condition, so I guess didn't see any warmongering.

 

anyone any thoughts on dates as I am guessing 60's.

 

Clive has sent some FV1611 images over with squaddies wearing alike headgear but just wondered!

 

Regards

[REME 245]

The liners are normally always dated if you check.

[woa2]

My guess would be 1950s/early 1960s as it is an earlier liner. The liner will be dated on one of the 4 straps which also show the size and manufacturer. The helmet itself should be dated where the chin strap is attached to it.

[Enigma]

50's or later.

If you remove the liner you may see the date stamped in the side.

[ted angus]

Its a 44 pattern helmet of course they remained in production for several years, the liner appears to be of the original pattern but not sure of the chin strap. The first helmet I was issued with in Cyprus (1970 RAF ) was a tommy style, in 1974 I got my first 44 pattern, its liner was identical to yours, with the same chinstrap. . My helmet was replaced by another 44 pattern in Germany in 1979 this one had a later style of liner.

[Snapper]

I have one with the mix of shell and liner,too. Interesting to note the archive where I earn my daily crust has pix of this helmet - the MkIII -being unveiled to the press in 1941. It wasn't issued until '44 for the classic reason they were making so many of the MkII ('Tommy') pattern and also it's similarity to those of other beligerents. Yap yap yap.

[Rover8FFR]

My guess would be 1950s/early 1960s as it is an earlier liner. The liner will be dated on one of the 4 straps which also show the size and manufacturer. The helmet itself should be dated where the chin strap is attached to it.

 

found marks in reverse on liner that state 7 FFL III 1952????

 

THE spacers on the liner say PAT 534207.

 

I guess that makes its an intact 1952 helmet in pristine condition. Having taken back the scrim and the dates seen marked above it makes it post WWII Damn shame!

[Enigma]

found marks in reverse on liner that state 7 FFL III 1952????

 

THE spacers on the liner say PAT 534207.

 

I guess that makes its an intact 1952 helmet in pristine condition. Having taken back the scrim and the dates seen marked above it makes it post WWII Damn shame!

 

 

I allready suspected it to be 50's, I've got a lot of those helmets and liners.

There should be a date stamping on the inside of the steel helmet itself also.

 

WW2 dated ones are a bit difficult to find but they are out there.

[Snapper]

I don't think I've even bothered to check mine. I just presumed fifties. I bought it at Tilbury Fort a million years ago.

[unionjack]

It's a MkIV helmet.

 

What has been referred to above as a "44 pattern" is a MkIII, introduced in 1944 to replace the MkII 'Tommy' helmet so distinctive of WW2. Issued to D-Day assault battalions. Production stopped almost straight away due to Japan throwing in the towel.

The MkIV was not introduced until some years later and is a different helmet.

 

The difference lies in the method of attaching the liner, the MkIII having a hole and nut/bolt to attach a standard MkII liner, the MkIV use a 'lift-the-dot' fastener on a welded pin. This was to enable the liner to be removed to create a water bowl.

Secondly the chinstrap attachment point on the MkIII is part way up the side, the MkIV is closer to the rim (as pictured on your example) to make the water carrier more stable to carry when full.

 

The later type liner with green elastic around it make the helmet into the MkV as used in the 70's/80's.

[Snapper]

Explaining the leap to the GSMkVI modern type introduced in time for the late eighties into the Gulf War period...used until recently. Thanks a million for the education.

 

MB

[REME 245]

This site like most sources states that thec MkIV was introduced in 1945.

 

http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/militaria/british_helmets3.htm

[unionjack]

That site illustrates the difference between MkIII & MkIV very well.

 

I have an old article from The Armourer by Marcus Cotton. This is extremely well detailed indeed and runs to 13 pages.

 

It states the first contract for the MkIII was placed in November 1943 with Briggs Motor Bodies of Dagenham but a large proportion had to be carried over to 1944 production due to shortages of Manganese Steel. With D-day only 7 Months after the contract date it explains why so few were in circulation.

 

The first contracts for the MkIV were placed in December 1944, production continuing until January 1946 when all production was cancelled. This basically dates all MkIV's from 1945 but they are unlikely to have been issued to fighting troops before the end of the war.

 

It would seem that no helmets were produced from then until contracts for the MkV were placed in 1959.