montie Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Hi guys, I took some photos at our local MOTH club of these vehicles. Do any of you have more info on this? The first one I think is a Marmon Harrington Mk4 as it appears similar to the posted photo. The second one I don't have a clue as to what it could be, will probably have to join the MOTH to gather more info. I am sure you boffins out there also have the answers. Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Looks like a Crusader. There seem to be several survivors in S Africa: http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panzers.html (This web site is looking for photos of various Crusaders at Moth clubs...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Monty, The armoured car is a Marmon Herrington, someone on the forum has one if I recollect. The tank is as Runflat says, a Crusader. I have seen one in the UK some years ago, that was brought in from South Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Its a Crusader probably a Mk2 -Mk1s had a hull MG turret but no-one was skinny enough to use it, so it was removed from MK1 and Mk2 never had it (hence the probably) Mk1- and 2 had the 2pdr gun. South Africa seems to have more Crusaders than anywhere else. The MH Mk4 is distinctly odd it seems to be a bodge up of an early Field Force version (home service use in South Africa) and would have been armed with a machine gun in a ball mount in the position now occupied by the ill fitted 2pdr or whatever. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted May 30, 2010 Author Share Posted May 30, 2010 Thanks to all you guy's leads, I've come to the conclusion that the Crusader is not high on anybody's list due to all the problems associated with it. Powerful tool the Internet! And that MH is one ugly MV! The Crusader was mostly used in North Africa it seems (keeping it out of harms way??:cool2:), maybe that is why there are so many overhere as you say. My education is continuing and I must keep my eyes open! Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Hi Montie The battles that the Crusader served in North Africa were as brutal as any other tank battles in WW2 -the urgency to get the unfortunate and much maligned thing into service meant it was proan to many mechanical problems -not helped by the lack of knowledge required weather proof them for the long sea voyage via South Africa to Eygpt. By the end of the North African campaign tanks had developed quickly and the Crusader was obsolete but it had served well from November 1941 to May 1943 which is about as long as other Cruiser types managed in WW2. Personally I think both the Crusader and MH Mk4 are great -if the MOTH wants rid of them I could certainly be persauded to tow them away -without charge:D:cool2: seriously they are both of a great deal of interest the MH is certainly one of a kind as most other survivors are 2pdr armed or 2pdr armed model F -unfortunately most collectors would want the 2pdr armed variant. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Quite, I'd love a Crusader! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted May 30, 2010 Author Share Posted May 30, 2010 Ha-ha, Nothing quite like a bit of stirring to get some response!! :whistle: Really guys, thanks for your inputs, I have been ignorant in this field for way too long but am thoroughly enjoying the learning and education. I have been catching up with the reading of older posts (really misrable out there today!) and all I can say, there is enough knowledge in this forum to write many volumes! Cheers. Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Adrian Barrell Quite, I'd love a Crusader! I'd settle for a MH Mk4:-) montie Ha-ha, Nothing quite like a bit of stirring to get some response!! :whistle: Very cruel, it doesn't require a wooden spoon to stir me up:D You might not be aware of the folowing site http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Panzers.html It has 2 relavent sections one on Crusader the other on MH armoured cars including many preserved vehicles in R.S.A. it does take sometime to access, probably because it runs on PDF files. The MH section actually shows another 4 Mobile Field Force Mk4s which seem to have been modified to mount a HS 404 20mm cannon probably ex Hurricane aircraft weapons possibly to be used for airfield defence, so not as rare as I thought but interesting all the same especially if properly restored. Another link came up for MH Mk4 fans (there may be enough to make a quorum) this is the rare Jordanian conversion to mount a 6pdr A/T gun. http://www.maketarstvo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10934 Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 (edited) Hi guys, I have spoken to this one guy at work that belongs to the MOTH (Memorable Order of the Tin Hat). They have a meeting on this coming Friday and I will tag along. Apparently there is another MV at the back of the building, a six or eight wheeled vehicle which my contact have no clue of what it could be. Can hardly wait to snap it and get your opinions. I will have to spend some time researching all these leads you guys have provided, I will just have to wait for other cold and wet evenings and weekends. I don't want to take to much time off from refurbishing the Saracen. Cheers, Monty. PS. I will pass these old soldiers your regards as I am sure you would. Edited May 31, 2010 by montie sentence construction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Hi all, I had been to the MOTH meeting tonight, it was really entertaining to meet and join the old soldiers. A photo of the certificate of comradeship. Here are some pics of another Marmon Herrinton in the back of the clubhouse, apparently this one does not have an engine and the other one (previous posting) is complete exept for a missing (read stolen) distributor and manifold on the sidevalve Ford V8 engine. The misterious "6 wheeled" vehicle, apparently a bren carrier. Some other miscelaneous items An American Radio as the word has it. More radios. A light of russian origin Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Hi Montie Interesting pics. The "Bren" carrier is a US built Ford T16 which came into service toward the end of WW2, I wasn't aware of the RSA getting any but considering the number built it is not surprising they were more widespread than reported. The MH Mk4 is nice, again odd in that it lacks a co-axial machine gun apperture :shocked:. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Montie - could you let me know what a MOTH meeting is please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Hi Jack, It is a Veteran Soldier's association and this was at a once a month general meeting. M.O.T.H. is the abbreviation for "Memorable Order of the Tin Hat". I will post more info on this if you like, I got some brochures ( I had a heck of a time getting the spelling right!) on their organisation and the vehicles parked outside. Regards, Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Thanks Monty - I have a picture/certificate like from WWI - I will take a pic also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 5, 2010 Author Share Posted June 5, 2010 Hi all, Some more photos of unknown South African MV's, not vintage but already part of a fast disappearing history with nobody trying to preserve it as it was "politically incorrect". And then "The Thing", what a waste of good spares and vehicles!! The "population Control" part is......:rofl::rofl:Maybe I should stop calling it "The Thing" and rather call it "Condom"!! They should have made better use of it. Regards, Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I like the bonneted trucks Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog8811 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I so want one of those forward control 4X4s, they look similar to our home brewed 101s, any idea of the liniage of them? regards rog8811 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 5, 2010 Author Share Posted June 5, 2010 Hi guys, More info on the MOTH club and the MV's. This documentation is not copy righted. The "Marmon Herrington" The "Bren Carrier" I have got a write-up on the Crusader as well but only of you are interested. Cheers, Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 5, 2010 Author Share Posted June 5, 2010 Hi rog8811, I will do some digging, they (the scrap yard) are some distance away (400 km's round trip) but I want to go and enquire about some Saracen spares, one on one, not this telephone c**p. Also check out the Saracen buildup thread for other military trucks in the background of the pics. Cheers, Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 chevpol I like the bonneted trucks They seem to be very similar to the patrol trucks used by the IDF for border patrol from the 170s- to 90s -can't remember the exact designation but I think the basis was a Chevy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 6, 2010 Author Share Posted June 6, 2010 Hi all, I have posted pics of a Long Tom cannon and an unknown machine gun under the thread http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?5693-11-10-1899-Boer-War-begins in under this day in history. Not sure whether I should duplicated photos in the different threads. Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 I like the bonneted trucks Mark Mark, here is the answer to your trucks. The bonneted trucks are Israeli type M325 Commandcar which makes sense....I'm using the 1985 Jane's MV book for this info I so want one of those forward control 4X4s, they look similar to our home brewed 101s, any idea of the liniage of them? regards rog8811 rog8811, here is your answer too. The flat fronted trucks are SAMIL 20 I think. Built by a firm from Pretoria.. The SAMIL 20's were built as a replacement for the Unimog based vehicle, the "Buffel" although not mine resistant as the "Buffel" was. These answers came from somebody else that went digging for info. I will take some more pics when I go to see these guys. Who knows what else may be hiding there? These SAMIL's were part of a series of vehicles, ie. the SAMIL 50 (using a V6 Magirus Deutz engine), the SAMIL 80 (using a V8 Magirus Deutz Engine) and then the SAMIL 100 with the V10 Magirus DEutz engine. I have very fond memories of the SAMIL 80 and 100 trucks. We were stationed in the remote northern part of Ovamboland, Namibia, during the bushwar for 6 month at a time. Once a week, on a Wednesday evening, a guarded convoy arrived at the base from Ondangwa. This was about 80 or so kilo's away. These convoys brought fresh produce, bread, beer and of course, letters and packages from home. So, very early Wednesday mornings, just after "klaarstaan" minesweepers on foot with their escourt of infantery soldiers left for Ondangwa sweeping the sand road for mines and the same happened from Ondangwa end. They usually met half way and then the vehicles could travel at around 80 km's an hour back to the base. So, towards late afternoon everybody was listening for the distinct sound of these trucks. What joy it was to hear them! To this day, I still love the sound of those engines! ("Klaarstaan" was done half an hour before sun-up and half an hour after sundown for an hour lying in the ready, waiting for an attack as it was deemed the best time of attack in the North.) I have strayed very far from the thread, let me shut up! Regards, Monty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Israeli? didnt know S.A. used Israeli trucks, would make a nice addition to the show scene over here! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.