Pete Ashby

Now's the time to see if all the measurements and fabrication stood the acid rest of actually fitting the truck and what do you know it all fitted and worked just as it should These two photos show the fixed bow at the back of the cab and the folding bows in position on the side of the cab This one shows the fixed diagonal brace that keeps the back bow in the vertical position Pete

One thing I didn’t mention in the last post was that 2 of the three sets of bows have spade ends formed on them before the bending took place. After several attempts with some scrap tube it became clear that even with heating to cherry red and bashing on the anvil I could not make reproducible spade ends with a nearly flat back and recessed front face of the size needed so I looked around for someone who could. So for the price of a pint I got the ends formed by my local black smith using an ancient drop hammer. A truly awesome piece of kit overhead belt driven with no guards, when it does it’s stuff the whole building shakes and a steady rain of spiders and dust fall from the beams. Instructions were minimal, like most of his craft he is a man of few words ‘Here hold this end and don’t move until I tell you’ that was the limit of the on the job training. A couple passes on each bow end the job was done all that was needed was for me to round off and drill the spades. After the bending procedure that was covered in the last post I was now ready to make up the bows. First job was to cut off square the spare length of tube using measurement D (from the previous post or the mid- point of the truck bed if no pattern is available) this now produces a bow exactly half the width required, repeat for the other half side. The centre joint needs to be strong, direct butt welding is not an option even with the larger diameter tubes. Therefore I reinforce the joint with steel bar, it may need a bit of turning in the lathe as it should be an interference fit in the tube, gentle heating of the tube and a light tap with the hammer should be all that’s needed to push the bar in about 3’’ on small tube and around 6’’ for the larger diameters. On the larger ones I drill a couple of holes at 90’ so that I can plug weld the bar and tube together. So now there is one half of the bow with a spigot of bar sticking out, take the other half of the bow warm the tube gently to expand it push onto the spigot and close up to leave about 1.5mm gap between the ends. This bit is key……..make sure both ends of the complete bow are flat and parallel to each other before tack welding the joint, I make sure to pick up both ends and socket with the tacks before welding a continuous bead to lock in position and then dress down to a smooth finish job done,….. time for photo I think. This shows the finished joint welded and dressed down This may sound a bit of a faff and I have tried making bows out of one length with only very limited success. I found it the devil’s own job to keep the ends parallel and trying to determine the point to start the second bend so that the ends are at correct distance apart to fit the sockets was not an easy task. The two half’s method gives easy reproducible results every time as long as the centre point is measured accurately. The next job was to make the brackets that connect the three bows together and enable the hood to fold out like a pram canopy. Having items to copy was invaluable although very simple in design the shaping and the curves have to be correct or else the brackets bind on the pivots. I made the brackets from stock bar heated to cherry red and bent and formed using the anvil, vice and a length of pipe slipped over the end of the hot bar to help start the bend. These two photos show the brackets in place on the bows in the open and closed position The pivot pins were made up using appropriate Whitworth bolts welded into square nuts which in turn were then welded onto the bows in the correct position this all sounds a bit agricultural but that’s how the originals were made except they were gas welded and I use Mig. Loops for storm sheets were copied and bent up using rod of the correct diameter, footman loops for the hood buckles were fabricated from off cuts of 16 gauge sheet. Correct positions were taken from the pattern and then marked off on the new bows and welded on. So after all that I ended up with a working set of bows shown below in the open and closed positions, there is one more separate fixed bow that sits at the back of the cab I'll show that and the whole set up in position on the truck in the next post.

Thanks guys, Needs must and all that Pete

There's only so much fun you can have while wearing a welding helmet so for a little light relief I put the wing aside and thought I'd make up a set of cab hood bows just for a change from all the rust and decay. Once again I have been exceptionally fortunate in being a lent a set of original early cab bows to copy, (you know who you are and I am indebted to you), it would not have been possible to fabricate them from pictures. I've made hood bows for several trucks now using the method I'll out line below, others will have their own preferred method but I find this works for me and gives good reproduce-able results up and including tube of around 40mm OD . The tool list includes a piece of string, a stick of chalk, a wheel rim, 2m of scaffold tube and a 1m length of heavy angle iron and a large flat area of concrete that you can drill holes in and an exhaust U bolt…..all will become clear below. For the Retriever cab bows I used stock tube @ 22mm OD with 3mm wall which is very close match for the original imperial size used. Next job was to cut the stock to a measured length this is where a bit of chalk and a piece of string comes in handy or (thin wire if you prefer). The point here is that British and Canadian bows do not appear to be formed on an exact 90’ quadrant they seem to form an arc that eases into the bend and eases out of it. I’ve tried large commercial pipe benders in the past and the results seem to form a bend that enters and leaves too sharp. So this is how I do it: A On the original bow I marked with the chalk the start of the arc on the vertical leg and the finish of the arc on top for each side of the complete bow B This is the bit with the string, run the string around the outside of the arc between the two points measure this with a tape and it gives you the length of the arc. (You can do some fancy O level maths if you wish but I live on a small holding and we have lots of binder string so there you are then). C Find and mark the centre of the top bow accurately with your chalk. D Record the measurement from the end of the arc on the top bow to the centre of the bow E Measure with a tape from the bottom of the bow to first mark on the vertical Add the three measurements B,D,E together this equals one half of the length of the completed bow Add at least 0.5m to the figure you get the reason for this should become clear in minute. Too many words here let’s have some photos: This shows the angle iron and rim bolted into the concrete with expanding bolts they must be fixed very firmly as there is a fair amount of force acting on both during the bending process. The angle acts as a brace and the inside face is exactly 90’ to the inner circumference of the rim. The rim has been drilled to take an exhaust U bolt of appropriate size and adjusted so that it forms a sliding fit on the tube and positioned so that it is set at the point of the start of the arc on the vertical leg……. Eh?……….. OK just look at the photos The bow is clamped in position ready for the bend. Slide your scaffold tube onto the free end and make sure it’s tight up against the rim Now this is the bit that takes a bit of ‘umph’ particularly if bending larger diameter tube so you may wish to 'phone a friend'. Any way start to pull the free end of the bow around the rim you don’t need to do it one have several short pulls keeping the scaff tube tight against the rim or the bow will kink. When I first tried this I thought a bit of heat would help things along…… it didn’t, it was a dismal failure…. along with the exploding concrete singed hair and bad language I produced a flattened and distorted bend so put the torch away and flex those muscles. It is important that the bend is kept square as the bend progresses. To finish take the free end just past the 90’ to take out the spring in the tube so that when it relaxes it finishes at 90’ to the clamped end Repeat for the number of bows needed x2 remember you are only forming one half of the complete bow each time. In the next installment I’ll show how that load of old junk can be turned into a set of bows. I' aware this all sounds a bit long winded but it’s quicker to do than explain. If you’re doing this without a pattern then you need use the truck bed to get the centre point of the bow and the truck specification to give you overall height minus the height from the floor to the bottom of bow socket on the body. The arc length for 30cwt and 3 ton the arc radius is around 70cm and for and 8and 15cwt about 30cm, this is where the wheel rim comes into use I use a 900x16 rim for the large arcs and a an old style pressed car rim for the smaller ones.

Nearly another year gone by so I thought it was time I gave a bit of an up date. Progress on the Retriever has not been startling as several other projects have been on going however a little more has been done. My last post showed some photos of the mates side wing repair and so flushed with the result I tackled the drives side wing next if the first one was welding fresh air then this one was welding nothing but a promise, it really was in a very sorry state but in for penny as they say. The method was as previously explained for the mates side. The starting point Ho Hum better get another roll of mig wire then :-( Some replacement sections ready to go back in And so it goes on, more cutting more patterns more mig wire :yawn:

Well done Richard and I thought it was just me that needed glasses :undecided: Pete

Glad to see it's not just me, with the exception of the normal guest contributors who continue to produce interesting articles the over all aspect of the magazine has changed. I've given it time for the new team to settle in but I'm left with a strange feeling of an external and ill informed view of the movement as a whole, not sure if I'll renew and I have every issue back to No1 :-( Sorry this moan has hi jacked your thread Tim Pete PS and every Wheels and Tracks too:)

Give these people a try Howard http://www.oilsealuk.co.uk/ Pete

Is that on all wheels or just one ? the reason for asking is that dependent on your answer there are several different things that could be causing the problem. Pete

Don't grease them I know some do but I was always told it can attract grit and dirt which will accelerate ware. As for painting from the factory they are not painted between the leaves just the out side faces. If you think you need to I'd suggest just a light undercoat of red oxide only then assemble when fully dry. Pete

A good quality lithium based grease and as per usual I'm going to suggest Morris lubricants no connection just good reliable quality, have a look on their web site to see what grade and type is best for you. Pete

No only 2nd to 3rd is synchro blocked, 2nd to 1st is double de-clutch it's a much faster change than on the large trucks. Pete

Your welcome Degsy, that's good news much better than just sitting on a dusty shelf for another 70 years Pete

:D:D:D:D:D:D Pete

Nice work, looking forward to following the rest of the restoration regards Pete

It's difficult to be honest Degsy, if it's seized it may be as simple as a few drops of light oil on the rear drive bush or it may have eaten itself internally or the worm drives for the mileage drums may have jammed, depending on the damage it may be only good for spares. In the first case £50 to £80 seems to be the going price for a standard counterbalance needle model in fair condition. In the second case £25 for spares. The clever people buy a repro unit which are pretty good then find a old face and needle in good condition and change them over :-X Pete

There's something wrong there I'm afraid :undecided: your brakes should be hydraulic on all wheels. As for your return spring on the throttle diesel or petrol it still should have a return spring on it. Pete

First off congratulations on the purchase of the truck. The answer to your first question is dependent on a number of factors the most important one being what form of maintenance and how long ago it has been undertaken. Depending on the the answer it could be as simple as checking levels and bleeding the system or as involved as replacing all main lines and flexies new/sleeved cylinders new seals new linings and skimmed drums, so you can see that you need to a little more information from your seller before you start any work. As to your throttle, yes it should return or else you have no way of controlling the engine speed of your truck. I'm assuming that you have the original 216 Chevrolet engine and Carter carburetor installed, so if you look below the manifolds you should see the throttle relay connecting rod (this connects the throttle butterfly to the relay lever that pivots on the block) look slightly forward of this (towards the front of the engine) you will see a small peg with two notches screwed into the block this is where your return springs hook onto, one for the foot throttle the other for the hand throttle. the other end of the springs attach to the carb relay levers. Pete

It really does depend on the type and manufacturer, it could range from a truly eye watering sum for a pre January 42 slat grill MB down to £50 to £80 for a standard 0 to 60 mph counter balance model as Nick has said pictures would help to give a better estimate. Pete

Not a silly request at all, however I'm not too sure what the problem is, you say the loom has been wrapped in one colour I'm guessing you mean that you have no colour coding on the individual wire runs? I'm a little surprised that Auto Sparks have done this as they work from original specifications it's usual for pre war wiring to be mono colour (usually black) I've checked my 1940 Bedford MW OY OX manual and it specifies all the wire run colours in the wiring diagram so I'm surprised they have not followed this at least with something near to the specified coding. However this is not the end of the world all you need is a continuity meter and check each wire run and label it up. Start at number one and write this on a piece of masking tape and stick it on a wire doesn't matter which one, find the other end with the continuity meter and stick another piece of tape with number one on it...... repeat in sequence numbering each run until the whole loom and any ancillary looms are traced and numbered. Now lay the main loom onto the truck in the correct position and most of the runs will be self explanatory in terms of where they fit or reach you should end up with just a few runs that you can't identify and you can do these by self elimination. Pete

I can't find this number series for 'car 5cwt' either for Ford or Willys sorry :undecided: Given your build date a number in the 52xxxxx or 55xxxxx series would seem more likely, it's just possible that its a complete rebuild re issue number but I don't have the number blocks for these units perhaps someone else can help. Pete

I'd suggest that one is at the upper end and at a premium due to its early build date. I would think you may be in with a shout around the top end of your budget. good luck Pete

One in the UK on Milweb now http://www.milweb.net/webvert/77242 Pete

The August 1942 parts list includes both the old slotted rocker cover listed as ''1st jobs'' and a filtered inlet for the new sealed cover listed as ''after jobs'' there has been a lot of discussion about the term ''after jobs'' and Iv'e not seen a full explanation of the term the nearest I think any one has come to explaining it is a modified or substituted part. So by August 1942 PCV systems were being supplied from the factory and retro fitted as required to earlier manufactured units, the guys on MLU will probably be able to give chapter and verse on this subject. Pete