steveo578

Yugoslavian version of an MG42 in 7.92 x 57.

Get your good lady to do it -you know it makes sense:-D:nut: Steve

Yes * = Canada Full designation Carrier Universal No3 Mk1*

Difficult to give a snap answer -most machine gun corps WW1 tanks-armoured cars tended to have Hotchkiss or Vickers machine guns. Only MKIVs used the Lewis until replaced by Hotchkiss -for some reason the Lewis was tried in place of the Hotchkiss and then reverted to the Hotchkiss. I can't see any advantage or disadvantage of either type- perhaps just a production bottle neck. Some A/Cs in the middle east in the inter war period, especially those operated by RAF used ring mounted Lewis- but there are no signs of externally mounted ready use boxes, but that doesn't rule it out. It could be a ready use locker for a naval- or armed merchant vessel which used Lewis until the end of WW2 -although many were US calibre 30-06in. or a stretch it could be a RAF equipment for air field defence. Steve

That looks fairly realistic, but could be more a sratch build then refurbishment. Steve

That sounds like a possible variant to improve "capture" on striking face hardened amour- in a similar fashion to the APCBC rounds used in A/T weapons. I think though I cannot turn up a cross section of one (as yet) that the ADI/Thalid F1 may be different- which probably would be the round you used. there are at least 25 versions of M855/SS109, due in part to the huge number produced and different manufacturers and the on going need to resovle the perceived problems with the kill capabilites. Steve

ingenious - I know some-one who wrecked a pair of perfectly good Churchill track guard blast plates using them as jack bases:nut:

Possibly -it's been around a fair amount of time the photo is a section that has appeared in a number of publications web sites etc. I have added labelling to define the component parts. As long as a round has a full metal jacket of consistant hardness, lacking striations, does not contain substances that may explode,(for example mercury fulminate) or contains deliberately toxic material it is OK as regards the current convention. Air spaces and liquid alloy materials contained within the FMJ are OK, personally I've never been happy with this -the 1907 Haugue convention say a bullet is not to constructed to cause unnecessary injury or suffering -but that's lawyers. The 1907 convention made the MkV .303 illegal as it did not have an FMJ and was replaced with the Mk7 which has a FMJ with a pith soft nose beneath the jacket, causing it to wobble. In WW1 the US forces in Europe issued an AP 30-06 to snippers called M1917, it was a steel penetrator with soft lead nose as a balistic cap but without a FMJ -it was fairly quickly withdrawn for fear of summery justice being meeted by Germans on any captured soldiers. Steve

As they said on big bang theory -"Babylon 5 = derivative":cool2:

I don't think we are getting off thread -the whole thing is a generational thing, 30 years ago people liked L1A1s people are fond of what they know, perverse people like members of HMVF are even known to like stuff from eariler generations often stuff that had poor value but lots of character- I like Churchill tanks and No4 rifles so I must be 90years old. Can't agree with that point, I doubt all the c**p that has been reported in the last 5 years or so about the poor quality of kit boots, Snatch Landies, etc ad nausem has been solely motovated to engineer a change in government or to demoralise the public at home. That was not questioned, Artistrifles said that a SLR with bayonet has a longer reach over a SA80 and that the heavy construction made for a better infighting weapon- I can add to that on several occasions the shear solidness of the SLR saved lives by taking an incoming bullet -at least twice in N.I. Sometimes it makes a difference, having a "bang bang jam" can really end your day, but I am certain no-one on this forum disputes the quality of our servicemen. Steve

Alot of official and anecdotal research has been done into the relative merits of various .556 rounds including ss109 versa 7.62 Nato and russian AP and even standard ball -it has been found that although .556 AP can penetrate the standard 1/4inch plate there is practicaly nothing left of the penetrator, unlike both types of 7.62 rounds have damaging residual effects, that is steel cores and lead spall pass clean through. Additionally although the SS109/M855 has better AP capability, the M193 and the earlier .223 ball, that the M855 replaced is regarded as having a better tumble effect against "soft" targets. The SS109/M855 does not have an air space it is a slug penetrator with a fully shaped balistic lead nose covered with a FMJ. I could reprise in detail the various types of Soviet/Russian round but its really a little off topic, sufficient to say that they have numerous attempts to "improve effect" of the standard 7.62 x 39 ball including the M65, the air spaced, alloy and none fused alloy (so called liquid core) bullets all of which were cause it to wobble on impact- these were more common on the 5.45 x 39 M74 a weapon which was found seriously wanting in Afghanistan. The famous Wolf 7.62 x 39 round is a Russian commercial round mainly used for hunting with SKS and other civilian weapons. Steve

If you're thinking of the Panther that went to Herr Flick I thought that was in Surrey. Steve

That is really very sad, it would depend entirely on how badly bent the chassis is- is there enough to make a chassis ladder, there's a UC in the background,- I assume the gun is an M3 from a Sherman- upsidedown! That could be very worthwhile for trade-legalities not withstanding- I would hope the scrap guy allow you to take it away for scrap only price after picking off the totaled pieces, I haven't seen Eddys new carrier yet so I don't know whether he has sourced components for the armour cut off the pulpit, if not perhaps the UC might be a donor. You would be very brave to take it on even assuming suficient chassis could be slavaged, very long term project possibly, I think most people would consider it insane.:shocked::-D Steve

Doesn't surprise me at all, but then the U.S. state educational system does tend to concentrate on Washington - War of Independance and the Constitiution, consider the popularity of the series "John Adams" I doubt a similar peak time drama documentary about the 7 years or Napoleonic war would get produced in the U.K. unless Sean Bean was lead actor:-( probably the same in Poland but I can't think of a suitable analogy. -in the UK we had Dr Who -bugger we still have Dr Who.:-D

Bob Grundy restored one some years ago. I think they were M/S steel plate so even replacing the strcture wouldn't be impossible, I surprised that Loyd carrier turned up. Have they sent you a photo as it could be a Universal -which were in German border Guard service into the 1960s. Most U/C parts are interchangable twin bogies, track, probably drive components, simple steering so none of that track warping nonsense, importantly compartitively rare= desirable Steve

Fair point, As a "general rule" at 300 yards and under the 5.56mm to the head or the critical torso area of an unprotected person will kill outright -so it is dependant or the ability of the shooter. The 5.56mm really became popular in law enforcement in both civilian and military operational terms because of the over power of the 7.62 nato round, the classic case of an accidental discharge of an SLR in N.I. when the bullet passed through a cavity breeze block wall of a 1950s council style house, passed through another breeze block internal wall through a fridge injuring a civilian, exited through the cavity external wall and stopped by timber fence. I recall a road block party stopping a vehicle dead by taking out the block with an SLR (I would think it was aimed at the driver:-D) something that could not happen with a SA80. I suspect that 5.56 may not be so effective in Afgnanistan because of the varrying relavent distances (remember the M16 was developed for jungle COIN warfare) and that no doubt the insurgents have captured body armour- both NATO and ex Soviet.

MOD will run around like a headless chicken chucking good money after bad- irrespective of who is in government. The Army specialist units already use HK417 and now there is another rifle the L129A1- which "seems" very similar to a HK417 but US made added to which the new sniper rifle L115A3 shoots an 8.59mm cartridge so obviously the old 7.62mm x 52 is not really good enough! The 7.62mm AR10 predates the M16 but was never overly popular- I think one small South American power used it but it was too fragile- which is something that is said about the HK417 -requiring a very high standard of soldiership to keep it in condition. Meanwhile the old Soviet era SVD (Dragunov) goes on and on like the Energizer Bunny.:-( Steve

The SA80 order was let only to make it possible to privatise the ROF in the 1980s but as to "why we didn't use the M16" the British Army in the 1960s was the largest user of of M16 other than the USA -most weapons being used by Ghurka regiments but quite a few were used in N.I. by British batallions. Don't realy get the Humane War comment- and FYI the SA80 was incompatable to U.S. ammunition until post M16A2 mods came into service- different rifling standards- it is compatable with weapons used currently M4 etc. As to the SLR I can't think of any lightened FAL, the L1A1 is actually a lightened FAL consider the Israeli service versions including the awful H.B. version. I personally would take that with a pinch of salt -British Army always complains adversely about the relative quality of their own kit compared to the enemy- they did it in N.I. when one officer showed a AR15 (U.S. Commerical -ie cheap version of an M16) to the press and said "I wish we had this piece of kit" being oblivious of the 250k stock of M16A1 already held by the MOD. As the the AK range how did the officer distingush between a spent 7.62mm x39 or a 7.62mm x 54R or even a reload 7.62mm x 57 (ie russian bullet fitted to a .303in round). Historically (and I would recommend Tony Williams excellent site for this) the 7.62mm x52 NATO was basically a shortened 30.06 -a result of improved propellant so in effect it could never be a good assault weapon cartridge. The British had succesfully developed an excelent weapon and cartridge in the shape of the 7mm EM2 only to be stabbed in the back by the 1951 British Govt and to a lesser extent poor support from the Canadians. depends how you fire an AK, on repetition is it fairly good up to about 300metres -typical Russian non existant sights, but pointless on full auto -like almost everything else- try using a FAL on full auto. The modern susat sight is the only thing worth keeping -as to the calibre yes its .22 in theory- and there was a .22 rimfire insert for M16 rifles for inital training, but you would not want to see the damage a .223 can do at battle ranges because of the tumble home effect- whereas a 7.62mm x39 even with the modified M65 bullet tends to either punch through or stop dead.

Hi Hanno I think it was sectioned due to damage on one side rather than be an instructional vehicle, it came off the old SPTA gun line where the A24 Cavalier and A27 Centaur and I think the Budge A27 Cromwell were recovered in 1985 and most of these vehicles suffered one sided damage to a greater or lesser extent. If you look at the link I posted the sectioning is apparent- rear suspension plate missing and sectioning of the sprrocket +some missing engine covers and other panels. It's local to me perhaps I should get off my lazy backside and go and have a look at it. Steve

there is a nice pic of the crusader and retank at http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/title/GBR-Museum-of-Army-Transport/t/18871 but obviously when still at Beverley

Mars!!! speak for yourself, I'm from a small planet near Alpha Centori:nut::nut:

Unless its moved again recently the Crusader and rectank (railway tank transporter) is at the Locomotive Railway Museum at Slidon in Co.Durham. The ex Stainburn Moor, ex Berverley Churchill Mk2 is at Bovington.

Excellent photos, I wonder if the grey thing behind the german modified 7.5cm M1901 field gun is the receiver of a 30.5cm Bofors M12? Anyway great stuff

the budget is actually this tuesday 22-6-2010

Always thought my map reading skills were lacking -now I know Munster is in the czech republic that's probably the reason I get lost :-D proof if I ever needed it that half the human race has no concept of geography:-D:-D text is fine totaly readable