steveo578

Hi eddy If I remember correctly the Cromwell have a hammered -rivet like head over a washer anvil, so to break the track it would be necessary to chisel off the head and discard the pin, so lots of variations. Steve

More a case of any repairs would mean the tank was no longer original as the lower side plates would have to be completely replaced- it's too brittle to weld. From what I heard the metal around the road wheels (rollers) is cracking up - comparatively thin metal and no suspension to reduce the shock and possibly poor quality metal all add to the problem. The same brittleness is also visible in the rhombiods in Ukraine so not unique to Bovington, however it would be interesting to see if the none service vehicles like the International and the Mk9 carrier are similarly deteriorated. Steve

I was looking at those Churchills again and you are right it is a Mk2 not a Mk1 I must have been having a brainf**t :embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed: Steve

There were 3 types of tracks on Churchills if you ignore the original built up type, these are heavy cast steel (shown in the first photo in post 121) light cast steel and a almost identical Managnese Steel track (probably that shown in the second photo- its difficult to tell there is a small internal web on light steel track) all were more or less interchangable- although the light steel track seems to have rapidly required a modification of the idler by fitting a slightly thicker rubber tyre than that required for the other 2 types, this probably means the manganese track was designed to replace the light steel track - because it was stretching too much -hence the interim fix of a thicker tyre to stop it slapping on the idler teeth. By 1944 the manganese and heavy steel were most common and were readily interchangerable -the heavy steel was prefered for low speed cross country in heavy going -mud -sand etc the manganese light track was prefered for mixed road/cross country running. As an example of changing of tracks before a mission some of the Canadian Mk3s prior to Dieppe had light track and were retracked with the heavy cast track. The Post war Churchill Flail always ran on heavy steel track -as it function would require slow heavy going. Hi eddy you posted while I was composing a reply. There was an emergency "service pin" for relinking track in emergency but the accepted method as soon as a welder was available was to weld a tab retained pin, but then again consider other methods that were common at the time- one system for covenanter relied on braising -which must have lasted a few hundred yards, one of the most efficient was the soviet method on T34s etc of an open pin being knocked in by a hammer plate just in front of the sprocket. Churchill track with pin and weld in wedges the pin on the left is the service pin for use to repair a broken track. Steve

My assumption it is the one that was recovered from OTA but that was 8 years ago for all I konw it could have been sold on and another one acquired. The OTA T54 was a National Volks Armee DDR tank and had a barely visible NVA marking on the turret (hammer, dividers etc).

assuming it is the OTA tank it's a T54 not a T55 -but then i'm a pedant:D Steve

Don't worry eddy I'm sure some young enthusiast will hold the barbed wire down as you struggle over the fences:-D Some further photos of the Red Cavalier - empty rear compartments. Close view of the drivers/co drivers hatches (A type hull) sometimes called suicide hatches the turret could easily jam the hull crew escape- although there was a hatch in the hull floor, it seems to be difficult if not impossible to use. View from drivers side to co drivers position Drivers station Hull gunner station- in both OTA Cavaliers the hull MG mount was not fitted and the mount was blanked off along with the linked gunners periscope -the tank was designed to take a No 20 Besa mount which had an indirect periscope sight with aiming linkage. Note the ripple texture on the armour plate Steve

The appeal evidently has been successful so it should be running again in 2011.

I'd much prefer to be driven around unless I had to sit in the gunners seat -then I'd prefer to walk. It must be one of the most economic and robust (therefore cheap to maintain) of any MBT. the IofW one sat on a range with its hatches open, in one of the wetest areas of the UK for 10years, with an internal tide mark of rain water up to the turret ring and apart from a burnt out starter it was comparatively easily restarted and recovered- lots of smoke initally. Steve

Sorry mate I've never come across any reference to a Conqueror box being used in this vehicle, I can't see any advantage in fitting either of the Conquerors boxes Z52 or Z52R over the standard Z51R of a Cent both have 5 forward and 2 reverse, a Conquerors box would obviously be much stronger but how important this would be in a SPG is debatable and as it was the limiting factor in the Cent. was the relative strength of steering and main brakes. Had one or other of the Conquerors boxes been fitted I suppose as the output shafts run in opposite directions it may alter the output of the final drives. I would have thought the method to get the FV3055 to drive in the opposite direction would be most likely a modified final drive/spocket unit to a single reduction (which was a component alteration re-visited by the Dutch/Israelis to utilise the AVDS-1790 CD850-6 combination) or perhaps intermediate reversing box (which is unlikely because of space considerations). Steve

But then again the British version was also dangerous to the carrier aircraft- and even as late as 1945 "eight ball" -the US version -based on the original British spherical weapon brought down a couple of A26s. As you said one theory- I have heard it said that the primary self destruct was to operate in the event of an aircraft crashing- even if the weapon was not armed, but whether that is factually correct or just a myth I don't know. Steve

It's possible that the crews intended to arm the weapon on approach to the target, rather than lugging a large armed bomb across the continent.

Got it now (thanks to Hannos photo) it was the turret of the OTA Red Cavalier- that must have taken some effort -or panels from another tank.

I actually thought the previous documentary (about 12mths previously) was better, -in which the same survivor of the Skorpee Dam attack explained how they did it and the narrator went on to what happened to the other aircraft scheduled for the Skorpee Dam attack -the loss of which led to the failure of the attack leading to the perception that the over all raid was a pyrrhic victory. Steve

Possibly the relative turret position is the same as it was when I last saw it but its not possible to diffentiate from the turret alone although the odd Centaur had a turret without pistol ports-however I thought Adrian said the Cavalier turret was used on the Centaur IV exhibit that went to the continent,- or was it the one off Centaur "Yellow Mike"?:confused: Anyway I think eddy was using the generic term -and initally all A24-A27L and A27M were Cromwells, but since you ask the A24 and A27 were quite different -different suspension spacing and components hull floor differences- hence it would be impossible to convert an "A hull" Centaur to a Cavalier even cosmetically. In the engine/transmission bays the cooling and transmission/steering details are very different, much more akin to the A15 Crusader for obvious reasons as Nuffield manufactured both. And eddy thou shall not covet your neighbours "Cromwell turret" - I know you probably fancy a second turret.:cool2: Steve

Churchills were always vulnerable to mines especially in the battles around the German border where trip mines attached to UXBs became a favoured defense measure (so again nothing changes in warfare). Although the floor was fairly high it was not srong or even well constucted to take a blast. The sponsons were vulnerable to explosions which caused blast and suspension to burst through the sponson floor plate into ammunition stowage and fuel tanks, apart from heavy damage to the floor if I remember correctly Jackel has a pierced left sponson behind the pannier door -beneath an ammunition rack. A major injury downside of the Churchill was the so called Mk4 hand- amputations of digits -even hands caused by heavy hatches closing unsxpetedly- however the same thing can still happen. The most unexpected consequence of service in Churchills is deteriation of hearing caused by the lack of noise insulation. As I mentioned previously the Valentine was also fited with a turbine -possibly if fitted with 2 a valentine might have got airborne:-D Another pressure mine clearer using aircraft assist rockets Steve

as eddy said it is a Mk1 or Mk2 turret. Without a hull and without a serial number (sometimes the Serial and a name were painted on the turret sides) it is impossible to say which type it is -only the hull gun mount and ammunition stowage is different. I get the impression that these orphaned turrets were used to train infantry in attack techniques on "stellungs" German tank turret strongpoints which were common in German defence lines back to the desert war. It may be significant that the remains seem to have little or no battle damage. By 1944 a number of Mk1 and 2 Churchills had been handed over for targeting, the one shown was below was on Leysdown range on the Isle of Shepey. At least 6 were set up as an escort ring around the main vehicle line a Goswick Air gunnery and bombing range near Lindesfarne island Northumberland and of course the Storrington tank.

the last one is a bit of a surprise as I thought they tested the goblin engine on a valentine.

It's off a Stuart series M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5, M5A1 and M8 A sherman road wheel is about 23cm wide.

The weapon in the AVRE is the petard mortar -which is a spigot mortar similar to the PIAT. The large plate on the side covers the breaking spring the weapon breaks external of the turret like an upside down shotgun. Note the plate beneath the barrel protects the breaking handle To load the loader in the hull gunners position opens a sliding hatch which replaced the normal co drivers hatches on the Churchills roof. Grabs the opening handle which with the assistance of the large balance spring (see later photo) causes the barrel to open presenting an open breach to the open sliding hatch. A Petard bomb is manhandled into the breach and when in position, the loader pulls the handle to close the weapon by swinging it down. The loader slides the hatch close. The weapon is now ready to fire. In the turret there is a large spring case (like that on a Piat but bigger), A spigot in the case is holding the spring under pressure, on firing the spigot flies similataneous with an igniter -a revolver style tube magazine is visible above the spring case, unlike earlier spigot mortars an igniter initiates the Petard propelling charge which throws it slowly down range (hence the name flying dustbin). The recoil shock is absorbed by reseting the spring in preparation for another round. A chain winch is stowed in the turret for inital cocking and releae after action. Break/balance spring is visible in this photo. The flying dustbin bomb- comprises a charge and tail section with the propelling charge in the tube. counterweight on spring case Spring case and tube(igniter) revolver A loaded petard Rather long complex explanation -I hope it helps Steve

I had intended my pics on the thread to run from the oldest stuff to the newest but as there was a request for Chieftains I decided to post them early -there are other chieftain photos from OTA on other posts -for example the stillbrew sequence (thread Question what's your favourite tank), -which I decided not to post here. Steve

Hi Hanno Is the missing AVRE the one that was dug up from under the road? Or is this the first shown in your post (position of the turret) Steve

thanks for confirming that -out of context Mk7s have a tendencey to look the same -although this one has spaced armour mounts (as does Winston and of course the Mk7 at bovington). I was surprised how complete it was -I saw a photo of the drive train -although the gearbox might have been a problem as the access panels were removed.

00EB34 managed to shed a track and crash into a ditch, the road surface was so badly damaged while moving the CFE Chieftains that it was closed for some time. 08FA86 showing the short track close up of Hermosa 05EB04

It's the note underneath for express delivery postage- are they expecting their clients are about to beat off an attack by the Kaisers storm troopers:D