79x100

I have an Excel file (I'm not sure of the origins) and it includes some info up to 6288025 (A Wyles Mobile Steam Cooler' ?) Also some Volkswagens and Land-Rovers mentioned so clearly post-war. I have an idea that it was once on-line somewhere.

The whole exhaust system was original, including the clamps. Very nice indeed. When Jan got the bike home, we just kept finding more and more original features. With a few very limited exceptions, it is truly a time capsule...and it's not shagged !

The headlamp unit on this bike was a complete pattern replacement, Chris. I'm sure that the original would have had bright yellow gas paint. There had been a BEF order in February 1940to paint headlamp glasses blue and not blacken the reflector half. My Norton seemed to have followed that practice. It was also a late 1939 build so presumably early 1940 arrival in France.

'Most' BEF motorcycles didn't have any tank marking and certainly if they were only rushed out of Base Ordnance Depots as things went wrong, then they were probably never marked. You won't be able to use the same Arm of Service serial on all three as Scout Carriers were Divisional Cavalry, The CDSW was obviously an arty field regt. and and the WD/C was an RASC vehicle. Second line so probably more likely at Corps level than division. 2 Div is nice :-)

I know that Jan went over this one with a fine-tooth comb alongside his own (but badly abused) ex-BEF WD/C project so there can't be too many mysteries or impossibilties when it comes to cycle parts. Has Ben decided how he's going to mark it up yet ?

It's nice to see it again, Ron. I had the pleasure of riding it up and down a French builder's yard in the rain almost two years ago. It was sloppy and out of adjustment and the cables etc. were hanging but it sounded quite good mechanically with no nasties. It came from a town straddling the Belgian / French border and had spent some time registered in Belgium to an older chap who had taken part in some old vehicle events. We weren't able to follow the trail back any further. Jan and I assumed that it had been abandoned by the BEF in that area but in fact the earlier French painted-on number is from Le Havre as I recall so it probably never made it far away from a Base Ordnance Depot. It's quite wonderful that no-one had trashed the numbers to hide its British Army identity. No signs of any contract plate which seems typical of this early, rushed part of 1940. Although not common with the BEF (there seem to have been more 3SWs), thanks to the Army photographer, Lieutenant Keating having been loaned one, we do at least have photographic evidence of the use of the WD/C by the BEF. C68144 is of course very close to Ben's C68153.

That's my understanding too, Richard. I was really just trying to make the point that there is no real evidence that the India Office vehicles changed colour at all. Simply a need to alter the name.

This confusion of terminology seems characteristic of the late 1930s. My specific knowledge is based on the colour annotations in the Norton motorcycle factory ledgers. Pre-war, Air Ministry Nortons were simply noted as 'Blue' and Department of Army Contracts as 'Green'. Through this period, the India Office were shown as 'Khaki'. The Army machines at this stage were gloss bronze green. In October 1938, this changed to 'Dull Green' and evidence from components shows that a matt bronze green was used for a short period. This all changed on 13th June 1939 with the comment 'First khaki solo WD m/cs'...and then with the next India Office build on 17/7/1939 they were suddenly shown as 'Matt Brown'. There is no evidence of India vehicles becoming SCC No.2 in 1939 and it seems likely that subsequent to the War Office appropriating 'Khaki' for their Khaki Green Gas Proof colour, it was necessary to re-define the dull mud colour previously known as khaki and used for Middle / Far East transport.

Not a single vehicle there could have won a Gold Star in 1939 :-)

I do like Brooklands. That's another reason to visit again.

I don't recall seeing the MC 205 reference anywhere else but I'll have a look through my motorcycle contract records. Bearing in mind that it was a Motor Cycle contract, I wonder if the M C meant simply that.

National Archives WO199/1052 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=WO199%2F1052

I may have posted this image on the forum before. It is from the Ministry of Supply ledgers relating to Norton Solo motorcycle contract C9681. In a note dated 19/3/1941, it states 'Accept 20 motorcycles finished in RAF blue grey - delivery already effected - all future machines to be Khaki Green No.3 as WD spec MC 205. The main ledger states : "Delivery has been effected at works on behalf of A Ministry" This may suggest that the changeover was not always as clean cut as it should have been. Did Norton make a mistake or chance their luck to use up stock parts and paint, or bearing in mind that they seem to have been collected from the factory, did someone somewhere in the AM or RAF decide that they would have a small number in blue grey, perhaps for use in London or similar ?

I've copied a number of the MoS motorcycle ledgers and a number of these entries include parts such as tyres and tubes 'in embodiment loan'. My interpretation is that parts which were not available on the general market were supplied to the vehicle manufacturers for fitment, before being returned with the completed vehicles so were effectively on loan for a period. The contract prices reflected this aspect.

Is it not a Matchless engine ? A T/2 from 1927 ?

If you have an older UK licence (pre 1997) then you should have C1 allowing you to drive 7.5 tonne laden. If that is exchanged for a German licence (as things stand at the moment) then they should transfer all existing entitlements. I don't believe that Germany has any exemptions from the CPC Code 95 regs though so you'll need to do a full set of hours on that as well. I suspect that Germany is not a top destination for those wishing for an easy life with any sort of old vehicle.

There are small amounts of information available from various sources but no single place to look up everything. It is almost impossible to find out any wartime use of vehicles as the individual records have not been retained. There is a list published by RAOC Chilwell detailing the allocation of WD census (serial) numbers to contracts. However, this implies that you know the wartime serial. Once the contract is known, there are contract cards at The Tank Museum which may provide more information about the contract, particularly earlier ones. The RLC Museum holds post-war 'Key Cards' which may provide details of any post-war use and disposal etc. There is almost no information available on RAF contracts and serial numbers. If you want people here to help narrow things down, I'd suggest posting photos of the vehicles, any current markings (and any that have been found rubbing down paintwork) as well as photos of any data, contract or rebuild plates plus engine and chassis numbers. The six-digit number that you quote, 572041 does not relate to any wartime Guy contract. There are simply too many variables to begin guessing on the basis of incomplete information but if you post full details, you may be surprised just what can be ascertained.

No worries, Ron. I'm sure that you'll keep us entertained even if you haven't got much WD motorcycle stuff !

Netley Marsh in a couple of weeks, Ron ?

It's my fault. I should never have mentioned H*nda on an open forum. I apologies. No more expletives from me.

No Ron, I wasn't there and the stories about the kharzis are one of the things that put me off...It's too far for me to consider doing it for a day....and quite frankly these days if I can't have a dump without holding my nose and somewhere clean to have a wash and shave, I simply shan't bother. If I'm going to hire or buy anything then I'd expect to look at it first. You're sounding almost as defensive as John in these latest posts. I'm not sure that he realises just how off-putting the prickliness is. Every communication that I've seen relating to anything from ticketing to facilities has been 'take it or leave it' and quite frankly my inclination is to leave it....but what-ho, I'm just one paying mug. I won't be missed.

Where am I going to strap my f*cking portaloo then, Ron ? I don't want the bike to end up looking like a Honda !

Did Fleas have transfers ? I have a feeling that some later-war bikes did. 'Classic Transfers' are now run by the late Bob Derrick's family and it might be worth having a word about your requirements. If they're anything like as helpful as Bob used to be then they may well be able to come up with something.

My memory is that replacement brake pads where there was current production were asbstos-free from the mid 1990s, however, there was plenty of New Old Stock around and in fact you can still see it being sold...The more obscure the vehicle, the more chance of it being fitted with NOS. The major manufacturers of 'ordinary' cars had dropped it by the mid 1990s. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/4754364/Keeping-track-EU-madness-hits-used-cars.html

What size are the shims, Ron ? Would Norton isolastic shims fit ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORTON-COMMANDO-EARLY-REAR-ISOLASTIC-SHIM-KIT-SET-OF-8-06-0775K-/221515087293 Commandos with roller mains and gearbox bearings always need shimming as well, and they're widely available.