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sexton

CVRT Samson Winch Operation?

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I'm doing basic maintenance on a Samson. I don't have a manual. I'm curious if the massive winch in the back works. 

I've run the engine and engaged the short clutch lever just behind the drive shaft u-joints. The pump input  drive shaft spins, with a satisfying hydraulic pump-type whine. Sounds like it's driving the two pumps. The smaller pump looks like it supplies 1000 psi oil to two generic hose quick connects. It also seems to supply suction pressure to the larger pump that drives the winch. The RV on the larger pump indicates discharge pressure is about 2000 psi. The hydraulic tank is full. 

There is a long vertical lever with 3 positions that looks like it engages release cable, neutral, and pull cable. It is mechanically interlocked with the winch clutch pedal.

There is also has an engine throttle control lever mounted on the long lever. 

And there is an engine tach visible to the winch operator when his/her head is sticking out of the commanders hatch.

So my question is, have I got this right? Long lever to control release, neutral, and pull. Clutch pedal pressed down to disengage winch drive? 

What do we do to allow pulling cable off the spool with the engine shut down? 

Malcolm      

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Hi Malcolm 

as I remember it, the clutch pedal is depressed to release the holding brake (which is actually a car clutch plate), The lever is pulled towards you to winch in & away from you to pay out. You have to pull the cable off the drum as if you don’t keep tension on the cable it won’t come off. You cannot pay out without the engine running. There is a fast payout toggle switch on the ceiling of the compartment. Mine never worked, or at least didn’t seem to make any difference!

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Tried it today, Guy, and it worked exactly as you said. Thanks.

The hand throttle on the winch control lever had been disconnected at the throttle linkage pivot on the driver side wall. Don't know why. I'll see if I can get it working. 

Malcolm

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Sure. I'll get some tomorrow.

It also looks like the winch cable, which comes out the back of the vehicle, can be redirected to the front over the top of the vehicle. Guy, can you confirm? I'll take some pics of that also. 

Malcolm

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Hi Malcolm

yes, the winch cable can be run over the top of the vehicle & out the front for self recovery. There should be a set of rollers on top of the vehicle, and another at the front, although a lot of these were removed I think when extra storage bins were fitted on the front

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Here's some pics of the winch. All the covers are removed. 

Where the hook would normally be, there is a split block that is bolted around something on the end of the cable.  

The foot pedal for the winch release operates a clutch master cylinder. One photo shows the slave cylinder at the other end acting on the drum locking clutch. 

Another photo shows the orange flashing light. Just below it is an engine tachometer for the winch operator. I'm not sure what the orange warning light just above the tach tells the operator. Engine trouble maybe? 

There is a mechanical interlock between the foot pedal and the winch engagement lever to prevent the winch drive being engaged with the drum lock on.  

There is a warning buzzer that sounds if the master disconnect is closed and the winch PTO is engaged. A warning not to start the engine, I guess. You can see the switch button on the PTO closeup.

The winch is very well built and substantial, but the lever, throttle control, and foot pedal have an afterthought feel to them. The winch throttle control cable was disconnected at the throttle pedal linkage, I suspect because of the risk of the winch throttle being left at a high rpm setting by mistake. I've reconnected it, but I'm not sure I should have!     

Malcolm

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Edited by sexton

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Great set of photos.

Thats a clevis socket arrangement on the cable end. Just needs the appropriate size pin and a master link.

A better arrangement than cable clamps etc.

Is the Orange lamp over the Tacho a "Central Warning light" i.e. is on when warning lights come up on the drivers panel - generator, oil pressure, coolant temperature etc.?

The lever arrangement was probably a Friday afternoon job. Mind you  the hydraulics don't look much better ;)

Wouldn't it have been easier just to have a direct drive hydraulic pump mounted on the engine (probably not enough space in the compartment) and just run piping to the winch power pack rather than an additonal shaft and clutch arrangement etc. Controls could have been simple directional control valves instead of all those levers/linkages.

I presume the winch is used to lower/raise the earth anchor on the rear of the hull?

The Samson in this YouTube video has the front/roof mounted capstan blocks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQqpakoJVX8

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The rear spade is raised& lowered by hand. It’s ally so not to heavy 

theres a central bit that drops in between the arms & is located with a couple of sliding pins.

you drop the arm, fit the middle bit & then reverse back to jam the spade into the ground!

the winch was by all accounts a bit crap & I believe lots of them were removed & the Samson basically used as a prime mover for towing dead cvrt’s back to base

the Holley bones were special for the Samson & the towing loop could be removed & a pulley fitted in its place. This assembly was mounted on the top rear of the hull with a wire stay to hold it in position. The winch cable was run over this to  make a sort of crane for pulling cvrt power packs. Again it was a bit crap & I don’t think ever used. I used it to make a death slide for the kids. There’s some photos on the site somewhere. It was great for that!!!

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There was a Samson for sale a few years ago on Milweb and the ad photos showed the A Frame rigged with the spare engine suspended from it.

I hadn't realised these were the Hollebones for the vehicle.

Is the winch a commercial piece of kit adapted for Samson or was/is it a bespoke unit?

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That was my samson

the winch was a commercial one, but I can’t remember the manufacturer.

i did have the manual for it, but it went with the vehicle to Canada when I sold it

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Great info, guys. Was there a commanders seat that the winch operator could rotate around and sit in with his head sticking up out the hatch? This Samson doesn't have it. 

Malcolm

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The winch operators seat was in front of the controls. It could be tipped up so you could operate the winch seated whilst closed down, in which case you had to rotate the cupola so you could see what you were winching and also the tacho. Or it could be folded and tipped up, then slid to one side out of the way so you could stand up. Winching was always supposed to be done closed up in case of cable breakage.

I can see the fast payout toggle switch mounted on the ceiling of the compartment in a one of the photos, does yours do anything?

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Malcolm, I think I know where his manual went to as the new owner is a friend, I will see if I can get a copy, I had thought your principle was getting a manual at one point. Maybe it is worth mentioning that vehicle is an ex Belgian vehicle representing a British vehicle in case there are any differences,.

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Guy, I'll check out the toggle switch to see if it does anything. The switch is sticky feeling, like the internals may be gummed up or corroded. There's a blue hydraulic valve on the floor with wires running into it. It may control that.

Interesting that the winch is supposed to be operated closed up. Those guys in the YouTube video of the samson recovering a Klaas tractor didn't seem too worried about cable breakage! 

Robin, we have good generic manuals for our cvrts but no specific ones for vehicles like this. It not too hard to figure stuff out, especially with the expertise on here. 

Malcolm

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Aye, there were one or two "issues" in that recovery video..... I don't think I would have been anywhere near that!!

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I think forgetting the claas was either still in gear or had the hand brake still on when they were winching it out was an “issue”. It would have saved a lot of shovelling

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I did think that.....

Putting the handbrake on with it upside down in the stream wouldn't have been my initial reaction!!!

Nobody tried to start the Claas and use the boom extension to push itself out once it was upright???

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For those of a grey funnel background any chance of some general external pictures to try and place things in context?

It does look in good condition

Edited by Surveyor

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14 minutes ago, sirhc said:

In the back!

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Sorry me being thick no doubt, I assume that goes out to the rear of the vehicle,?

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If you scroll up to the photos posted earlier you can see the winch, the back door and the rope hanging over the pulley above the door.

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15 minutes ago, sirhc said:

If you scroll up to the photos posted earlier you can see the winch, the back door and the rope hanging over the pulley above the door.

Told you me being thick

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