Yet another new Oxfordshire Jeep (with starting issues)

I went to see a local Jeep today.

It was quite nice but there were a few oddities about it. Its history is not known but it has never been registered for the road, so I presume that it was an ex French army import. I could see no obvious Hotchkiss parts though but I don’t know very much about Jeeps and would have difficulty recognising them anyway. The scuttle cut out was there and the gauges looked mostly original.

No holes in the glove box door, which otherwise appeared original

Composite style body

Solex carb…

The windscreen had quite a steep backwards slant which left the canvas a poor fit. The whole body seems to have been skimmed with filler on the outside so I guess it was a bit rough, although personally I would have left it.

What are these loops for:

It also has a cut-off switch under the scuttle.

It has a new starter motor and battery (6V) but it hardly seems to have enough power to be able to turn the engine.

I don’t think it is the fault of the engine as I put the handle on it, turning it quite easily and it started first pull. The starter was installed by the previous owner and looks modern. Can anybody offer some thoughts as to what the owner could try to resolve this problem?

If you click on this photo it should demonstrate the issue….

The previous owner had problems getting it to start which is one of the reasons why he sold it I believe. Any thoughts or suggestions on what he could try next (apart from turn it to 12v) gratefully received.

Does the starter turn the engine over? 6 volt is very prone to dirty or loose connections. Note: The connections can seem tight, but still worth checking over. Other thought, how old the batery?

It looks to be an ok Ford Jeep with original Ford body tub,and chassis, note in pic 4 the oblong pressings for the locker box catches, an identifying Ford feature, Willys and the later composite and Hotchkiss bodies had round pressings, but it does have lots of filler !! probably is ww2 engine , can't really tell for sure from the pics, has Solex carb replacment, the windscreen is bent backwards, common problem, the battery cutout switch looks same as fitted to French Army Hotchkiss, Hotch wheels too. The video shows it spins over well for a few turns at normal 6volt cranking speed, then the battery seems to die, failing under load, probably is tired battery, essential to have a good 6 volt battery giving plenty of amps. a voltage test won't really tell the battery condition, need a load tester, it looks like everything has been renewed, new starter, battery leads, earth straps, starter switch,

6 volt batteries don't seem to like liying about. If the battery has been allowed to go flat for any lenghth of time its ****. What does a voltmeter show when the battery is sitting then during starting? You can always try a touch jump from a 12 volt to try the starter out.

Hi are there any fittings in the tub to take the half doors as I cannot see any ? is the cross member at the front round or square in section ? is there a spot weld in / on the small notch in the dash panel above the instruments the spot weld usually is half way on the notch / dash panel ? looks very much like a Hotchkiss tub to me at least deffo French wheels though the rear stowage bin tops look like ford ones is there a script F on the underside of them ? have you looked for chassis / engine Numbers ? willys and ford number behind oil filter later engines stamped above water pump, some French chassis have a rebuild plate welded to the chassis towards the rear.

looks like the windscreen frame has been bent backwards quite a bit hence the poor fitting hood and the odd look. If you have a look at the engine / axles / gearbox/ transfer box look out for WOF = Willys overland Francias.

As previously mentioned looks like battery problems as everything else seems in good order.

Just noticed carb is not original type Carter, anything cast on the top of the head like "Jeep" then its a post war head or is there a script F under the oil filter bckt ?

I hope these pointers have been of some help I'm sure there are more hmvf members with greater knowledge than me who can offer further advice :-D

Cheers J.

Hi are there any fittings in the tub to take the half doors as I cannot see any ? is the cross member at the front round or square in section ? is there a spot weld in / on the small notch in the dash panel above the instruments the spot weld usually is half way on the notch / dash panel ? looks very much like a Hotchkiss tub to me at least deffo French wheels though the rear stowage bin tops look like ford ones i :-D

 

Cheers J.

Its definately an original ww2 Ford tub, on a Ford chassis as I described in my previous post. Hotchkiss bodies have other identifiying features

Reference to cylinder heads WW2 Wiilys cylinder heads apart from early Slat grill models did have Willys and then later Willys Jeep cast into them, post war cylinder heads on Hotchkiss and CJ Jeep are identified by having raised ribs cast into them, this Jeep has a ww2 head with smooth casting

Looks to have a Hotchkiss grill too. The windscreen may be Hotchkiss. Is the small handle on the centre of the screen a casting or pressed from flat sheet. If it is pressed, it is most likely Hotchkiss. Springs could be Willys or Hotchkiss, as they have different clamps to that of the Ford GPW's. If they have 10 leaves front and 11 rear, they are Hotch, if they are 8 front and 9 rear, then Willys.

The engine block should have a casting date on the lower right side, below the starter.

Can't help with the starting problem. If the battery is good, the the engine turns easily, then it could be a poor earth of worn brushes in the starter.

Thanks guys. That is very useful and I have learned a great deal there. Yes, Ford chassis dated to July 43. Willys engine. Body has been coated with filler. I presume covering all the holes for fixing the side screens. I would have though with some body flexing that all of the filler would crack and drop off, we will see.

I couldn’t see any WOF markings on the axles, so with the Hotchkiss wheels and cut out it does look like a French army rebuild of a mostly Ford Jeep.

The battery was I understand new as was the starter, but it does seem to not have enough power to turn the engine more than a little bit. So, as you guys suggested it is wither a problem with the earth or the starter, but it does seem to be a new starter so you would not expect some of those problems.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

Tim

If it's all new, has the cabling been changed? The cabling has to be pretty thick for 6 volt due to the current draw. That may be contributing to your troubles.

If it's all new, has the cabling been changed? The cabling has to be pretty thick for 6 volt due to the current draw. That may be contributing to your troubles.

Check the engine oil is not thick..in this weather it should be very runny....My 6 volt Jeep gets 4.9 volts at the starter while cranking enthusiastically...which is a guide...

Was the starter dog nose bush changed in the bell housing when a new motor was fitted ?.

If this bush is worn, and they often are, the dog will be pulled tightly into mesh with the starter ring on compression stroke and this will try to stall the starter motor.

Pete

This thread is also relevent

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?30857-Jeep-conversion-to-12v-(I-finally-got-fed-up-with-6v-!!)

Looking at that photo of the starter I'd definitly have the connections off and clean them. They have to be spotless and tight. I now use the toothed anti shake washers as a matter of course on all the electrical fitting and earth straps, they may feel tight, but still won't work. My WC51 has always been very relaible, a couple of months ago I started her up moved her out of her shed and switched off. Went to restart, totally dead! NADAR! No lights , no indicators no noffink! After head banging I went under to the battery earth strap, looked OK and wouldn't move with hand pressure. As that was the only thing I hadn't checked I took it off and cleaned it then retightned. No problems since.

Disconnect the earth side of the battery, using a jump lead connect the battery terminal to the starter frame and try to start the engine, this will rule out earth faults. If this does not help take the other terminal off and using another jump lead short the battery terminal to the lug on the starter, this will rule out solenoid and wiring problems. Be sure to hold the clamps tight. If that does not help you could disconnect the lug from the starter and put 12volts across the starter, this will not damage the starter just for a short while but you must disconnect the starter as it may damage your other electrics. If that still does not work it's probably a starter fault, take the cover off and check all the brushes are making contact, I have known starters that have been miss handle have a brush bounce back and held off the com.

Just a thought but have you checked the starter switch for loose connections or burnt contacts as I remember a mates jeep with starting probs and this turned out to be the culprit.

RR.