3.7" Mountain Howitzer

Just returned home from the annual Normandy trip so took the opportunity to collect the latest find in my quest to locate and preserve some of Britain most Iconic Artillery. This particular Howitzer does bare some sentimental value and has taken quite a bit to track down so when a deal was brokered it was a real achievement.

I first saw the gun in the early 1990's at the Elvington MV Rallies and the tractor tyres always stuck in my mind but I did not know at the time who it belonged to. about three years ago I had a split second flash back about the gun and decided to track it down which more than likely ends up as wild goose chase, after many phone calls , e-mails and conversations with friends and colleagues around at the that time it seemed most people remembered it when I jogged their memories but no one knew who the gun had belonged to.

Finally I had a break through after talking to Bob Fleming who informed me that the Howitzer was ex-Budge collection and sold off when the collection was broken up, along with the new information came the name and address of its buyer.

I promptly made the phone call and 'Bingo' the gun was still in the possession of the original owner, a retired Doctor from the York area .

With a common interest we seemed to hit it off and had several phone conversations over the following 6 months or so and we had both invited each other to view our collections. However for some reason we broke contact after this and it was about a year later when I was sent an e-mail with the sad news that he had taken his own life. All of the weapons in his collection were disposed of through several auctions.

About a year ago I was purchasing an Artillery piece from another friend and collector, whilst I was rooting around his collection I was startled to see in the corner the 3.7" Howitzer, I had thought it went overseas but there it was.

One year of negotiation and here it is still on those tractor tyres !

A VERY welcome addition indeed.

Rob.....................rnixartillery

Very nice addition. The tractor tyres do look a little odd, and it looks like the shield sides have been relieved to clear the original tyre size.

Going to find the proper tread for it, and donate the tractor tyres to a deserving cause?

Well done Rob !! Another great find, to add to a unique collection.

Regards

stu

ROB

I recall you telling me about this Howitzer and your search for it very well done

REGARDS WALLY

Congratulations - a most unusual find!!

Rob,

So that's what you were up to in Normandy

Excellent find, you need to bring it over the the Netherlands one day and we'll re-enact some of the actions near Flushing and Breskens. Manhandling it up to the first floor of a house and firing at a pillbox and all! :cool2:

Cheers,

Hanno

From Maple Leaf Up > 3.7 inch Mountain Howitzer

1 Mountain Rgt were in action with their 3.7's at Walcheren. At one point, the advance had been held up by a pillbox built into the wall of a reservoir which despite several direct hits continued in action. Capt Cohen of 452 Bty returned to the beach and collected D sub borrowing the Brigadiers Weasel to tow it. He took them to a house next to the Bty OP and the gun was broken down and carried to an upstairs room overlooking the pillbox.

 

Firing over open sights the gun fired 8 rounds into the target. The first round opened a large crack in the ceiling of the room they were in and by the 8th round the gun trails were nearly in the room below. They were just about to risk one more round when a white flag appeared at the pillbox and 14 very dazed Germans walked out.

Just to conclude this thread, I have attached a few pictures of the finished Howitzer after under going a full restoration.

The Howitzer was stripped, repaired, blast cleaned and painted ,a more suitable tyre tread was located and fitted and I managed to retain the original hand painted 4th Indian Div sign which was painted on 40 years ago. This will soon be moved into another building along side the 6 pdr and very shortly to be joined by another little cracker !

Rob...............rnixartillery.

Just to conclude this thread, I have attached a few pictures of the finished Howitzer after under going a full restoration.

The Howitzer was stripped, repaired, blast cleaned and painted ,a more suitable tyre tread was located and fitted and I managed to retain the original hand painted 4th Indian Div sign which was painted on 40 years ago. This will soon be moved into another building along side the 6 pdr and very shortly to be joined by another little cracker !

 

Rob...............rnixartillery.

Very nice Rob

It's interesting to note how the wheel offset and tyre size works with appropriate tyres. The single version of those Budd wheels would rub those tyres on the shield edges as there is about 1" less offset.

All of the 3.7" Gun shields were manufactured square with straight sides from pre WWI, it was only when the pneumatic conversion was introduced that the shields were altered at workshop level to allow the wheels to fit and later the disrupted (wave) pattern around the edge of the shield was introduced early WWII, Very similar to the 6 pdr,Hotchkiss etc Gun shields.

These were cut out very crudely probably in the field.

Rob..................rnixartillery.

Very nice indeed.

How was these transported during service? where they intended to be broken down or drawn by a small vehicle or horse/mule?

Rob, nice work!! can't see the before pictures anymore though?

Cheers,

Lex

Rob, nice work!! can't see the before pictures anymore though?

 

Cheers,

 

Lex

Ive put them back on,I don't know where the others went but I have noticed a few have gone missing !

Rob...............rnixartillery.

Very nice indeed.

How was these transported during service? where they intended to be broken down or drawn by a small vehicle or horse/mule?

Broken down and carried by pack mule in Indian Mountain Batteries. However, there are pictures of them being towed, with limber (no 23), by, I think, Light Dragons. I imagine that the sole British Mountain battery to utilise these in NW Europe (see the other post about the gun being broken down and moved upstairs in a house) would have towed them with jeeps or maybe 15 cwts.

Chris

Rob, do you have a picture of the wheels?? are they 16" ?? look a lot like 75mm Pack How.

Cheers,

Lex

Rob, do you have a picture of the wheels?? are they 16" ?? look a lot like 75mm Pack How.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Lex

Lex,

They are very similar but a 20 " Rim.

Rob..................rnixartillery.

They are very similar but a 20 " Rim.

.... and fitted with 7.00-20 tyres? If so, where did you find those?

H.

.... and fitted with 7.00-20 tyres? If so, where did you find those?

 

H.

Hanno,

I have bought new 6.50/20 for this Gun but I had a choice of 6.00,6.50 or 7.00 they are readily available.

The tyre from the original pneumatic conversion was US Royal and although this make and size is still available today the tread pattern has been changed so I went for a make of tyre that had an almost identical tread pattern.

Rob...................rnixartillery.

Hi Rob,

Nice job with the gun. I am working on an Irish Army Morris Quad at the moment and am hoping to recreate an 18 pounder limber for it to pull. You seam to be a man in the know and thought you might be able to help me out. :-D

Check out my thread on hear: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?42481-18-pounder-limber

Regards Ross

Thanks for the explanation

Hi Rob,

 

Nice job with the gun. I am working on an Irish Army Morris Quad at the moment and am hoping to recreate an 18 pounder limber for it to pull. You seam to be a man in the know and thought you might be able to help me out. :-D

 

Check out my thread on hear: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?42481-18-pounder-limber

 

Regards Ross

Ross ,

You are in the right part of the world ,the Irish Army were the last nation to use the No 29 limber although they did have a couple of minor mods fitted, the picture in your thread shows the British variant.

I would advise that if you attempt to build a replica you must view one personally and take all the necessary patterns, dimensions and measurement's yourself this will help ten fold when you come to build it, taking someone else's word doesn't always work !

There are several No 29 limbers over there that you should be able to cross reference and I know where you may be able to acquire a Martin Parry conversion that has been removed from a Gun.

Rob....................rnixartillery.

Ross ,

 

You are in the right part of the world ,the Irish Army were the last nation to use the No 29 limber although they did have a couple of minor mods fitted, the picture in your thread shows the British variant.

I would advise that if you attempt to build a replica you must view one personally and take all the necessary patterns, dimensions and measurement's yourself this will help ten fold when you come to build it, taking someone else's word doesn't always work !

There are several No 29 limbers over there that you should be able to cross reference and I know where you may be able to acquire a Martin Parry conversion that has been removed from a Gun.

 

Rob....................rnixartillery.

Yes, there are considerable differences between the Irish ones and the British ones but they started out as standard British ones that where later upgraded with the Martin Perry conversion. I would be interested in acquiring the Martin Perry conversion Kit you have mentioned. Could you P.M me with more information please.

Ross,

The difference between the Irish and British conversion was the addition of a steel constructed box very crudely riveted over the top of the original wooden foot board which contained the wheel brace and jack and a spare wheel bracket on the top of the limber box.

The Martin parry conversion kits were supplied to 'approved' contractors who would complete the conversions for the various contracts.

The contract for the Irish Limbers was carried out by D&P ltd in the Buquor Works in 1940 .

These kits were also fitted to the French 75's and accompanying ammunition limbers the Irish had .

Rob.................rnixartillery.

Ross,

 

The difference between the Irish and British conversion was the addition of a steel constructed box very crudely riveted over the top of the original wooden foot board which contained the wheel brace and jack and a spare wheel bracket on the top of the limber box.

The Martin parry conversion kits were supplied to 'approved' contractors who would complete the conversions for the various contracts.

The contract for the Irish Limbers was carried out by D&P ltd in the Buquor Works in 1940 .

These kits were also fitted to the French 75's and accompanying ammunition limbers the Irish had .

 

 

Rob.................rnixartillery.

The one that I saw was much different. It opened up from the front instead of the back like most limbers and has fittings on top to carry a gun ring much like the 25Pdr limber.

The one that I saw was much different. It opened up from the front instead of the back like most limbers and has fittings on top to carry a gun ring much like the 25Pdr limber.

This is not a no29 18 PDR limber ,most limbers are loaded from the rear and not over the draft pole,the exceptions are the French 75 limber and the 4.5 limber.I should think the one you mention is that of the French 75.

I do own a no29 limber so know this item inside out.

Good luck with you project.

Rob............rnixartillery

This is not a no29 18 PDR limber ,most limbers are loaded from the rear and not over the draft pole,the exceptions are the French 75 limber and the 4.5 limber.I should think the one you mention is that of the French 75.

I do own a no29 limber so know this item inside out.

Good luck with you project.

 

Rob............rnixartillery

Hi Rob,I would say that the Irish limbers were heavily modified to suit what ever guns they had at that time, and there have bean quite a few. Including the French 75 and the 4.5. If the one I saw (that they are calling an 18 pdr limber) is in fact a 75 limber then there is a good chance that no genuine No 29 limbers have survived, but I will look into it some more.

Is there any chance I could get some dimensions/drawings of your limber please?:-D

Thanks Ross