WWII airplane crashes near Veghel

[Joris]

The recent crash at Schiphol got one of the locals here talking to my mother in law who helps in the housekeeping, about a plane crash in WWII which happened not more than 200 meter from where I am now.

 

This got me interested and now I've asked and search around for information on this crash. A mate of mine does a lot of research into this and sent me a list of crashes in and around Veghel in 1943 of which there were quite a few:

 

A link to Google Maps with the location of some of the crashes.

 

<DATE>, <TIME>, <WHAT & WHERE>, <TYPE>, <REGISTRATION>, <SQDN>, <PILOT>

12 June 1943, 01.15, crashed; Zijtaart (Veghel) Wellington X, HE-593,429 Sqn,F/Sgt.R.F.Conroy

15 June 1943, 00.59, crashed; Schijndel, Lancaster III, ED-980, 619 Sqn, P/O.K.McCulloch

 

17 June 1943, 00.59, crashed; Veghel (Middegaal), Lancaster I, W-4901, 103 Sqn, Sgt.R.G.Winchester

23 June 1943, 01.55, crashed; Veghel (on border with Dinter), Halifax II, JB-855 , 78 Sqn, F/L.L.H.Knight

14 July 1943, 01.30, crashed, Vorstenbosch, Halifax II, HR720, 158 Sqdn, F/Sgt G.R.J. Duthie

 

17 July 1943, ? , crashed; Veghel, Mosquito FBIX,LR-502,1409 Flight, S/L.P.I.Cunliff-Lister

 

28 July 1943, 01.20, crashed; Veghel-Gasthuisstraat, Mosquito IV, DZ-458, 139 Sqn, F/O.E.S.A.Sniders

 

17 Aug 1943, 23.10, crashed; Schijndel, Dornier DO-217M-1, Werknr.56018, 3./KG2, Oblt.A.Hieber

 

20 Oct 1943, 15:12, crashed; near Eerde / Veghel, B-17F, 42-30719, 390 Bomb Group / 569 Bomb Squadron, H.Schuyler

 

The ones in bold are of the most interest to me (now), they are just around the corner from where I live now.

 

I'll try and take pictures of the crash sites as soon as possible, if I can find the correct location of course.

Who can tell me more on these airplanes and crew? I'd love to have as much info as possible on these crashes so perhaps I can once get monuments there, who knows.

 

Edit: Added the third crash to this list for easier reference.

[Joris]

I'll focus on the Lancaster 17-6-1943 crash first, I've found this on the CWGC website which matches the information I already have.

 

Name: WINCHESTER, RONALD GORDON

Initials: R G

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Sergeant (Pilot)

Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

Unit Text: 103 Sqdn.

Age: 21

Date of Death: 17/06/1943

Service No: 1333599

Additional information: Son of Mark Thomas Gordon and Elvina Mercy Winchester; husband of Maureen Joyce Winchester, of St. Leonards-on-Sea, Sussex.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 5. F. 6.

Cemetery: UDEN WAR CEMETERY

 

I'm going to the Uden War Cemetery today and take some pictures and perhaps find out the names of the rest of the crew (usually buried together).

 

103 Squadron:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h103.html

[Joris]

The pilot of the Halifax crash slightly further from my house is buried in Eindhoven, I'll see if I can drive past it in the coming week.

 

Name: KNIGHT, LESLIE HERBERT

Initials: L H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Flight Lieutenant (Pilot)

Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

Unit Text: 78 Sqdn.

Age: 28

Date of Death: 23/06/1943

Service No: 128902

Additional information: Son of Herbert T. and Louise Knight, of East Cosham, Hampshire; husband of Freda Knight, of East Cosham.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot EE. Grave 16.

Cemetery: EINDHOVEN (WOENSEL) GENERAL CEMETERY

 

78 Squadron:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h78.html

[Joris]

And another one, 3.6km from my house:

 

14-07-1943, 0130, Vorstenbosch, Halifax II, HR720, 158 Sqdn, F/Sgt G.R.J. Duthie

 

The pilot was killed, 4 men were taken prisoner but Sergeant Jack Hampstead was hidden by the local population and made it back to England.

 

Name: DUTHIE, GEORGE ROBERT JAMES

Initials: G R J

Nationality: New Zealand

Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot)

Regiment/Service: Royal New Zealand Air Force

Unit Text: 158 (R.A.F.) Sqdn

Age: 21

Date of Death: 14/07/1943

Service No: 415298

Additional information: Son of Robert McCabe Duthie and of Hilda Eva Duthie (nee Davis), of Invercargill, Southland, New Zealand.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 5. E. 9.

Cemetery: UDEN WAR CEMETERY

 

158 Squadron:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h158.html

 

Found a website with the following information who shot it down:

Om 01.23 uur was het voor Dieter Frank voor het eerst raak, een Lancaster van 158 Squadron: Dit toestel stortte neer bij Dinter in Noord Brabant.

Translation:

At 1:23h it was the first hit for Dieter Frank, a Lancaster from 158 squadron. This aircraft crashed near Dinter in Noord Brabant.

 

Hauptmann Dieter Frank was 23 and from Köln and flew in a Heinkel He 219A-O with serial G9CB.

http://www.veteranen-online.nl/won/lek.htm

 

Found another website which lists Heinker HE 219A-O which crashed but the above serial is not in the list.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/heinkel_he_219.htm

[Joris]

No info yet on the Mosquito IV which crashed in the Gasthuisstraat. The pilots name is not on the CWGC website.

[Mark]

Wow!! Joris that was pretty quick on the information gathering, look forward to see what else you gather.

[Joris]

Today I visited the Uden War Cemetery and took the following snaps/

 

First some general pictures of the cemetery.

 

Then WINCHESTER, RONALD GORDON and what I think is his crew who died on June 17th 1943, I'll have to do more research before I can confirm this.

 

Then a picture of DUTHIE, GEORGE ROBERT JAMES who died on July 14th 1943.

[Joris]

Also shot down near Veghel where two Piper L4 spotter planes of the 101 Airborne. The first on september 22nd 1944, the second 2 days later.

[Snapper]

1409 Flight were Bomber Command's Meteorological unit based at RAF Oakington.

 

On the RAF history website:

2 April 1943

 

The only Bomber Command operation on this day was the first sortie of the newly formed No 1409 (Meteorological) Flight, based at Oakington. One Mosquito, crewed by Flight Lieutenant P Cunliffe-Lister and Sergeant I Doyle, made a weather reconnaissance flight to Brittany in preparation for the Bomber Command raids to be carried out in the coming night. The Flight operated until the end of the war, flying 1,364 sorties and losing only 3 Mosquitos.

 

Neither Cunliffe-Lister or Doyle appear to show up on the CWGC database.

 

So I checked a PoW website, which now I've found it looks fascinating and......on it we find.....

 

Michael Cunliffe-Lister is seeking information on his late father Sqdn Ldr Philip Ingram Cunliffe-Lister, DSO. He served in 1409 (Met) Flight of which he became CO in June 1943. On 18th July 1943 he made a forced landing in Germany after his Mosquito ran out of fuel following a navigational error. He and his navigator, P/O Pat Kernon evaded capture for 4 days but were rounded up and sent to Dulag Luft and thence to Stalag Luft 3 at Sagan where he remained until the end of the war. He died in 1956 when Michael was 7 years old.

 

http://www.prisonerofwar.org.uk/

 

This has been interesting....

Edited March 1, 2009 by Snapper

[Joris]

Wow very interesting indeed! Veghel isn't in Germany of course but that's beside the point

 

What I think would be the best course of action for me is to dig into old newspapers because they will most certainly contain information on the crash locations. On the up-side, there are a lot of websites which contain eyewitness accounts on crashes so there might be some information there but the number of crashes around Veghel is so big that it might not be possible to separate all the different crashes.

[Snapper]

The internet can be a wonderful thing and at times it can be a thorough pain in the backside. I often expect there to be answers to everything. But, as in the case of MUTT markings and other things - zip, or at any rate, not yet found.

 

Looking forward to more of your stuff matey!

 

MB

[Joris]

Found info and a picture of the B17 wreck from October 20th 1943.

 

B-17F,42-30719, CRASHDATE ; 20-10-1943,TIME; 15.12

390 Bomb Group / 569 Bomb Squadron

CRASHED; Near Eerde,Veghel

Piloot; H.Schuyler

Nickname; Shatzi

Bomber Attack to Duren,Germany

B-17 broke in two

MACR; 1039

Gruntmier and Johnson KIA

S/Sgt.Harry E.Johnson of New-Jersey,Plot B,Row 1 , Grave 28, Margraten

Hurst escaped,rest of the crew were POW

 

 

I also found more information on the Mosquito that crashed in the Gasthuisstraat in Veghel. The crew survived but was taken captive. Nothing new on the location though..

[sandy stafford]

And another one, 3.6km from my house:

 

14-07-1943, 0130, Vorstenbosch, Halifax II, HR720, 158 Sqdn, F/Sgt G.R.J. Duthie

 

The pilot was killed, 4 men were taken prisoner but Sergeant Jack Hampstead was hidden by the local population and made it back to England.

Sergeant J N Hempstead was my partners Uncle.

Name: DUTHIE, GEORGE ROBERT JAMES

Initials: G R J

Nationality: New Zealand

Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot)

Regiment/Service: Royal New Zealand Air Force

Unit Text: 158 (R.A.F.) Sqdn

Age: 21

Date of Death: 14/07/1943

Service No: 415298

Additional information: Son of Robert McCabe DUTHIE and of Hilda Eva DUTHIE (nee Davis), of Invercargill, Southland, New Zealand.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 5. E. 9.

Cemetery: UDEN WAR CEMETERY

 

158 Squadron:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h158.html

 

Found a website with the following information who shot it down:

Translation:

 

 

Hauptmann Dieter Frank was 23 and from Köln and flew in a Heinkel He 219A-O with serial G9CB.

http://www.veteranen-online.nl/won/lek.htm

 

Found another website which lists Heinker HE 219A-O which crashed but the above serial is not in the list.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/heinkel_he_219.htm

I am currently writing the story of Sgt Hempstead and his time in Holland during hostilities. I have a lot of information and know the name of the boy that helped him leave the corn field. I know Jack spent some time in den Hague and have the names and addresses of some of the houses he stayed in. The story is almost finished but any further information would be welcome. I plan to have the book published this year [or early next year] with 10% of the royalties going to the Dutch air museum and 10% to Yorkshire air museum,

Would be very interested to anything you have to add ,

Sandy

[andrew mitchell]

Do you have any further information about this crash. Leslie Knight was my grandfather. Thanks.

 

The pilot of the Halifax crash slightly further from my house is buried in Eindhoven, I'll see if I can drive past it in the coming week.

 

Name: KNIGHT, LESLIE HERBERT

Initials: L H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Flight Lieutenant (Pilot)

Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

Unit Text: 78 Sqdn.

Age: 28

Date of Death: 23/06/1943

Service No: 128902

Additional information: Son of Herbert T. and Louise Knight, of East Cosham, Hampshire; husband of Freda Knight, of East Cosham.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot EE. Grave 16.

Cemetery: EINDHOVEN (WOENSEL) GENERAL CEMETERY

 

78 Squadron:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h78.html

[Lancaster103]

Do you have any further information about this crash. Leslie Knight was my grandfather. Thanks.

 

Hi Andrew,

 

Send you a PM as I have more info for you.

 

Cheers,

Adrian

[Lancaster103]

I am currently writing the story of Sgt Hempstead and his time in Holland during hostilities. I have a lot of information and know the name of the boy that helped him leave the corn field. I know Jack spent some time in den Hague and have the names and addresses of some of the houses he stayed in. The story is almost finished but any further information would be welcome. I plan to have the book published this year [or early next year] with 10% of the royalties going to the Dutch air museum and 10% to Yorkshire air museum,

Would be very interested to anything you have to add ,

Sandy

 

Hi Sandy, As I am in touch with the relatives of Sgt R.Smith(who escaped together with Hempstead) I would like to share info with you. I have send you a PM as well.

 

Cheers,

Adrian

[Jo Mitchell]

I have only just come across your entry on the crash on 23rd June 2943.

The pilot Lesley Knight was my father. I was 3 years old when he was killed. I have visited his grave over the years and hope to visit this year, being 80 years on.

Jo Mitchell