Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 The recent crash at Schiphol got one of the locals here talking to my mother in law who helps in the housekeeping, about a plane crash in WWII which happened not more than 200 meter from where I am now. This got me interested and now I've asked and search around for information on this crash. A mate of mine does a lot of research into this and sent me a list of crashes in and around Veghel in 1943 of which there were quite a few: A link to Google Maps with the location of some of the crashes. <DATE>, <TIME>, <WHAT & WHERE>, <TYPE>, <REGISTRATION>, <SQDN>, <PILOT> 12 June 1943, 01.15, crashed; Zijtaart (Veghel) Wellington X, HE-593,429 Sqn,F/Sgt.R.F.Conroy 15 June 1943, 00.59, crashed; Schijndel, Lancaster III, ED-980, 619 Sqn, P/O.K.McCulloch 17 June 1943, 00.59, crashed; Veghel (Middegaal), Lancaster I, W-4901, 103 Sqn, Sgt.R.G.Winchester 23 June 1943, 01.55, crashed; Veghel (on border with Dinter), Halifax II, JB-855 , 78 Sqn, F/L.L.H.Knight 14 July 1943, 01.30, crashed, Vorstenbosch, Halifax II, HR720, 158 Sqdn, F/Sgt G.R.J. Duthie 17 July 1943, ? , crashed; Veghel, Mosquito FBIX,LR-502,1409 Flight, S/L.P.I.Cunliff-Lister 28 July 1943, 01.20, crashed; Veghel-Gasthuisstraat, Mosquito IV, DZ-458, 139 Sqn, F/O.E.S.A.Sniders 17 Aug 1943, 23.10, crashed; Schijndel, Dornier DO-217M-1, Werknr.56018, 3./KG2, Oblt.A.Hieber 20 Oct 1943, 15:12, crashed; near Eerde / Veghel, B-17F, 42-30719, 390 Bomb Group / 569 Bomb Squadron, H.Schuyler The ones in bold are of the most interest to me (now), they are just around the corner from where I live now. I'll try and take pictures of the crash sites as soon as possible, if I can find the correct location of course. Who can tell me more on these airplanes and crew? I'd love to have as much info as possible on these crashes so perhaps I can once get monuments there, who knows. Edit: Added the third crash to this list for easier reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'll focus on the Lancaster 17-6-1943 crash first, I've found this on the CWGC website which matches the information I already have. Name: WINCHESTER, RONALD GORDON Initials: R G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sergeant (Pilot) Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Unit Text: 103 Sqdn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 17/06/1943 Service No: 1333599 Additional information: Son of Mark Thomas Gordon and Elvina Mercy Winchester; husband of Maureen Joyce Winchester, of St. Leonards-on-Sea, Sussex. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 5. F. 6. Cemetery: UDEN WAR CEMETERY I'm going to the Uden War Cemetery today and take some pictures and perhaps find out the names of the rest of the crew (usually buried together). 103 Squadron: http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h103.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 The pilot of the Halifax crash slightly further from my house is buried in Eindhoven, I'll see if I can drive past it in the coming week. Name: KNIGHT, LESLIE HERBERT Initials: L H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Flight Lieutenant (Pilot) Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Unit Text: 78 Sqdn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 23/06/1943 Service No: 128902 Additional information: Son of Herbert T. and Louise Knight, of East Cosham, Hampshire; husband of Freda Knight, of East Cosham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot EE. Grave 16. Cemetery: EINDHOVEN (WOENSEL) GENERAL CEMETERY 78 Squadron: http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h78.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 And another one, 3.6km from my house: 14-07-1943, 0130, Vorstenbosch, Halifax II, HR720, 158 Sqdn, F/Sgt G.R.J. Duthie The pilot was killed, 4 men were taken prisoner but Sergeant Jack Hampstead was hidden by the local population and made it back to England. Name: DUTHIE, GEORGE ROBERT JAMES Initials: G R J Nationality: New Zealand Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot) Regiment/Service: Royal New Zealand Air Force Unit Text: 158 (R.A.F.) Sqdn Age: 21 Date of Death: 14/07/1943 Service No: 415298 Additional information: Son of Robert McCabe Duthie and of Hilda Eva Duthie (nee Davis), of Invercargill, Southland, New Zealand. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 5. E. 9. Cemetery: UDEN WAR CEMETERY 158 Squadron: http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h158.html Found a website with the following information who shot it down: Om 01.23 uur was het voor Dieter Frank voor het eerst raak, een Lancaster van 158 Squadron: Dit toestel stortte neer bij Dinter in Noord Brabant.Translation:At 1:23h it was the first hit for Dieter Frank, a Lancaster from 158 squadron. This aircraft crashed near Dinter in Noord Brabant. Hauptmann Dieter Frank was 23 and from Köln and flew in a Heinkel He 219A-O with serial G9CB. http://www.veteranen-online.nl/won/lek.htm Found another website which lists Heinker HE 219A-O which crashed but the above serial is not in the list. http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/heinkel_he_219.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 No info yet on the Mosquito IV which crashed in the Gasthuisstraat. The pilots name is not on the CWGC website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Wow!! Joris that was pretty quick on the information gathering, look forward to see what else you gather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Today I visited the Uden War Cemetery and took the following snaps/ First some general pictures of the cemetery. Then WINCHESTER, RONALD GORDON and what I think is his crew who died on June 17th 1943, I'll have to do more research before I can confirm this. Then a picture of DUTHIE, GEORGE ROBERT JAMES who died on July 14th 1943. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Also shot down near Veghel where two Piper L4 spotter planes of the 101 Airborne. The first on september 22nd 1944, the second 2 days later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) 1409 Flight were Bomber Command's Meteorological unit based at RAF Oakington. On the RAF history website: 2 April 1943 The only Bomber Command operation on this day was the first sortie of the newly formed No 1409 (Meteorological) Flight, based at Oakington. One Mosquito, crewed by Flight Lieutenant P Cunliffe-Lister and Sergeant I Doyle, made a weather reconnaissance flight to Brittany in preparation for the Bomber Command raids to be carried out in the coming night. The Flight operated until the end of the war, flying 1,364 sorties and losing only 3 Mosquitos. Neither Cunliffe-Lister or Doyle appear to show up on the CWGC database. So I checked a PoW website, which now I've found it looks fascinating and......on it we find..... Michael Cunliffe-Lister is seeking information on his late father Sqdn Ldr Philip Ingram Cunliffe-Lister, DSO. He served in 1409 (Met) Flight of which he became CO in June 1943. On 18th July 1943 he made a forced landing in Germany after his Mosquito ran out of fuel following a navigational error. He and his navigator, P/O Pat Kernon evaded capture for 4 days but were rounded up and sent to Dulag Luft and thence to Stalag Luft 3 at Sagan where he remained until the end of the war. He died in 1956 when Michael was 7 years old. http://www.prisonerofwar.org.uk/ This has been interesting.... Edited March 1, 2009 by Snapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Wow very interesting indeed! Veghel isn't in Germany of course but that's beside the point What I think would be the best course of action for me is to dig into old newspapers because they will most certainly contain information on the crash locations. On the up-side, there are a lot of websites which contain eyewitness accounts on crashes so there might be some information there but the number of crashes around Veghel is so big that it might not be possible to separate all the different crashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 The internet can be a wonderful thing and at times it can be a thorough pain in the backside. I often expect there to be answers to everything. But, as in the case of MUTT markings and other things - zip, or at any rate, not yet found. Looking forward to more of your stuff matey! MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Found info and a picture of the B17 wreck from October 20th 1943. B-17F,42-30719, CRASHDATE ; 20-10-1943,TIME; 15.12 390 Bomb Group / 569 Bomb Squadron CRASHED; Near Eerde,Veghel Piloot; H.Schuyler Nickname; Shatzi Bomber Attack to Duren,Germany B-17 broke in two MACR; 1039 Gruntmier and Johnson KIA S/Sgt.Harry E.Johnson of New-Jersey,Plot B,Row 1 , Grave 28, Margraten Hurst escaped,rest of the crew were POW I also found more information on the Mosquito that crashed in the Gasthuisstraat in Veghel. The crew survived but was taken captive. Nothing new on the location though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy stafford Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 And another one, 3.6km from my house: 14-07-1943, 0130, Vorstenbosch, Halifax II, HR720, 158 Sqdn, F/Sgt G.R.J. Duthie The pilot was killed, 4 men were taken prisoner but Sergeant Jack Hampstead was hidden by the local population and made it back to England. Sergeant J N Hempstead was my partners Uncle. Name: DUTHIE, GEORGE ROBERT JAMES Initials: G R J Nationality: New Zealand Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot) Regiment/Service: Royal New Zealand Air Force Unit Text: 158 (R.A.F.) Sqdn Age: 21 Date of Death: 14/07/1943 Service No: 415298 Additional information: Son of Robert McCabe DUTHIE and of Hilda Eva DUTHIE (nee Davis), of Invercargill, Southland, New Zealand. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 5. E. 9. Cemetery: UDEN WAR CEMETERY 158 Squadron: http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h158.html Found a website with the following information who shot it down: Translation: Hauptmann Dieter Frank was 23 and from Köln and flew in a Heinkel He 219A-O with serial G9CB. http://www.veteranen-online.nl/won/lek.htm Found another website which lists Heinker HE 219A-O which crashed but the above serial is not in the list. http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/heinkel_he_219.htm I am currently writing the story of Sgt Hempstead and his time in Holland during hostilities. I have a lot of information and know the name of the boy that helped him leave the corn field. I know Jack spent some time in den Hague and have the names and addresses of some of the houses he stayed in. The story is almost finished but any further information would be welcome. I plan to have the book published this year [or early next year] with 10% of the royalties going to the Dutch air museum and 10% to Yorkshire air museum, Would be very interested to anything you have to add , Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew mitchell Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Do you have any further information about this crash. Leslie Knight was my grandfather. Thanks. The pilot of the Halifax crash slightly further from my house is buried in Eindhoven, I'll see if I can drive past it in the coming week. Name: KNIGHT, LESLIE HERBERT Initials: L H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Flight Lieutenant (Pilot) Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Unit Text: 78 Sqdn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 23/06/1943 Service No: 128902 Additional information: Son of Herbert T. and Louise Knight, of East Cosham, Hampshire; husband of Freda Knight, of East Cosham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Plot EE. Grave 16. Cemetery: EINDHOVEN (WOENSEL) GENERAL CEMETERY 78 Squadron: http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/h78.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster103 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Do you have any further information about this crash. Leslie Knight was my grandfather. Thanks. Hi Andrew, Send you a PM as I have more info for you. Cheers, Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster103 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I am currently writing the story of Sgt Hempstead and his time in Holland during hostilities. I have a lot of information and know the name of the boy that helped him leave the corn field. I know Jack spent some time in den Hague and have the names and addresses of some of the houses he stayed in. The story is almost finished but any further information would be welcome. I plan to have the book published this year [or early next year] with 10% of the royalties going to the Dutch air museum and 10% to Yorkshire air museum,Would be very interested to anything you have to add , Sandy Hi Sandy, As I am in touch with the relatives of Sgt R.Smith(who escaped together with Hempstead) I would like to share info with you. I have send you a PM as well. Cheers, Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Mitchell Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 I have only just come across your entry on the crash on 23rd June 2943. The pilot Lesley Knight was my father. I was 3 years old when he was killed. I have visited his grave over the years and hope to visit this year, being 80 years on. Jo Mitchell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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