AEC Militant Mk 1 restoration

[Simon Daymond]

ah that explains it then, i.e 1964. I've seen pics where you have your rear wheels off, I presume you stripped the brakes as well? I'm no expert but assume that extra weight should help. Is it a Vosa test station you are attending or a privately run garage? If Vosa, ask to speak to the technical guy (white coat man), in past experience they have always been sympathetic and will point you in the right direction of relevant info. Perhaps it might be an idea to re-line the militant with a more modern friction material? I had to reline a Bedford OB in recent years, it failed the brake test on old woven brake linings, I had it relined using a more modern friction material and it locked the brake rollers on re-test. Also, you can book in for a 'voluntary brake test' at test stations, this usually test the lights, exhaust emissions and brakes, it doesn't cost anywhere near the same amount as a test or re-test, we always send our coaches for voluntarys before the actual MOT to make sure the brakes are within limits and the lights etc are set correctly. Good luck tomorrow.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Simon Daymond

[julezee001]

As I said the main problem is balancing the brakes on the 2nd and 3rd axles without the use of a commercial brake tester. They are far from the best design. Ideally it needs converting to 2 cylinders per axle, but I think that brings lots of added paperwork issues!

 

Hopefully I've made them better, as the n/s/r rod was easily twisted by hand when the handbrake was fully on, with the n/s tube tight and un-movable. Now both are just about the same? I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes!

 

My brother enquired at LSUK about 15 years ago for the price of re-lining, and was initially quote £600 an axle set of 4 shoes!!! They did later drop it to £360, but in the end he bought 2 complete BNIB axle sets for £80 from someone who had run Militants for forestry work! I haven't enquired recently for a price, but would suspect I could buy a pre 1960 Militant cheaper and solve the problem a different way?

 

Jules

[Simon Daymond]

I used a firm in Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire, price was £10 per shoe. They were 'cold formed' overnight, and were just the job.

 

http://www.saftek.co.uk/

Edited April 28, 2009 by Simon Daymond

[julezee001]

That sound cheap? Have you stripped your brakes on your Militant? The shoes are huge! I took both o/s/r drums off about 4 years ago to change the bellows oil seals on the hubs. Both those pairs of shoes were really oily, but having cleaned everything with brake cleaner, and rubbed them back a bit they have been fine ever since. I had the drum off the n/s/r yesterday expecting similar, but it was almost spotless, hence I've gone for adjusting the rod.

 

Jules

[Simon Daymond]

the price per shoe was a couple of years ago, but they were very reasonable, even though they will have gone up, they won't take your eyes out. The last set of shoes I had off them were perfect, I noticed the other day at work that we get our brake shoes relined through a firm called Fleet Factors, some shoes turned up recently with a Safetek label on them, so it's a small world. How easy was it to change the bellows seal? I've noticed that two of the rear hubs seem to be leaking a tad, but so far the brakes are unaffected. The drums will be off this Winter, if not before.

[julezee001]

Not trying to hog your thread, honest! As an update from yesterday I took my Militant for a re-test at 9.30 this morning. Failed again with the n/s/r brake with low effort still, causing imbalance on the rear axle. Ended up outside the test centre adjusting both rear n/s brakes almost to binding point, then went just down the road to a Commercial vehicle workshop who were really helpful, and adjusted all the rear brakes on their advice, and the tested on their roller brake tester. All seemed fine. Back to test centre for a second go today at midday. Secondary braking now fine (using handbrake only) up from 13% to 25%, great (needed 15%)!

 

Unfortunately the n/s/r whilst loads better, up from 350kg (ish) to 945kg (ish), is still way behind the o/s/r one at 1455kg (ish) (left paperwork in truck), giving 39% imbalance which again was better, but 35% is the limit! So time allowing I'll strip the brakes off the rear axle and fit the new shoes that I already have and go for a voluntary test, before blowing another £52 for a re-test. The other quick alternative is to squirt some oil on the o/s/r brake linings to drop their efficiency, but the exact effects are probably rather un-predictable??

 

Your Milly is looking great. It's hard to explain to people what it takes to get a truck of their size looking presentable, and then to keep it so, especially doing most of the work on your lonesome! Keep up the good work!

 

Jules

[Simon Daymond]

the voluntary is the cheapest way to go, you might find a reason why the effort is so low when you strip them down. If the shoes were contaminated once, they can sweat even if they looked spotless, if you are trying hard to get it to pass, particularly if you are nipping the brakes right up, this makes the sweating worse. You'll re-shoe the entire axle won't you? Otherwise you'll still keep the imbalance. Do you have access to a manual? If not I can copy the relevant pages for you. ( just re-read your post, I'd say that either the once contaminated shoes are sweating or failing that, you could try swapping the n/s & o/s rear drums, I was told to do this by a tester when I couldn't get a car through an MOT due to imbalance, it worked perfectly, TBH I think the re-line is the best way to go, otherwise you'll only have the same carry on next year)

Edited April 30, 2009 by Simon Daymond

[julezee001]

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to pull both rear drums off and have another look. It shouldn't be too difficult as the n/s one was off in the rain on Monday, and the o/s one was off less than 4 years ago. My plan is to have another clean and rub down of all the shoes, and then swap 2 shoes. My thought is that they could be different linings side to side, or even just worse contamination on the n/s. If I swap 2 shoes and put like shoes in the same position, either both leading or both trailing then that should even up the effort. It's worked for me on Landrovers in the past!

 

If the shoes were even slightly worn, or soaked in oil, I'd just fit a new set, but they really look like new. I would suspect something else, but the mechanical system is so simple there really can't be anything there causing the problem. The lever move freely, there is no binding, no ovality. Fingers crossed I'll sort it tomorrow, and help fill the Governments coffers again on Tuesday with a voluntary test, and then a re-test?

 

Jules

[Simon Daymond]

do the rear brakes work on a 'S' cam? Is this completely free both sides? Also, we've talked about your shoes, but are the drums ok, is there any signs of cracking etc? I clean brake drums with 80 grit paper before building back up. (any chance of some pics if you get chance?)

[julezee001]

The brakes do work on an "s"cam. I spent this afternoon having another go at the rear axle brakes. Swapped n/s leading shoe (top one) for o/s trailing shoe (bottom one), which should give similar linings on both sides and positions; also easy as the return spring posts are in the same position on those shoes. The levers and bars which operate the cams move freely, and the drums are in good condition both sides.

 

The only odd thing is that there was a home made shim on the leading shoe on the o/s. On re-assembly I removed it, expecting to adjust the shoes on the cam. On adjusting I the drum began to bind, but only on the trailing shoe, leaving the leading shoe a good 2mm from the drum! Wheel off again, drum off again, and refit shim, perfect!!

 

So I looked closer at the n/s. Leading shoe perfect, and can be seen through an inspection hole with the drum fitted. Trailing shoe can't be seen, so had to measure shoe height using a straight edge and feeler gauges against the hub with the drum off, and compare to the leading shoe. Again almost 2mm difference!

 

All the shoes are the same size, and are all like new for wear, so the difference must be in the build of the axle? I can only think that in the past it would have been good enough at stopping with new shoes, and as whichever shoe was originally doing most work wore down, the brakes would become better as the other was allowed to bed in too. With the mileage I do, I think I'd be long gone before that would happen naturally!

 

Has anyone else had to shim "s" cam brakes for this reason? In the manual it shows tall block shims for when the linings are worn, but they are almost 1/2 an inch deep, and not for precise adjustment. Has anyone else had their Militant brakes tested recently, and had fun with the rear brakes especially?

 

Anyway, I made a new shim from a Landrover inlet valve, (Patent applied for), so hope now the problem is sorted, and will have another go at a test next week.

 

Jules

[Simon Daymond]

ok, bit more to post, the last lot of pics were taken in the run up to preparation for the MVT 'Crank Up' at York a few weeks ago. Since then the focus was on getting a little more done for the recent trip to the Wing & Wheels show at Elvington.

 

Finally bowing to pressure after 15 years of pestering from my mum and dad, I decided the time had come to unearth the militant spare wheel carrier, oil bath air filter, and other related stuff from their garage. They don't drive, so I was fortunate to have been able to store it there for many years even after I flew the nest.

The Saturday before the Wings & Wheels show, the militant made her first trip back to my mum and dad's, unannounced at 8am. My mum thought the noise was a helicopter flying low overhead, thankfully her neighbours looked on from their bedroom windows with amusement, but there was no hostility ( I hadn't realised it was quite that early, until I pulled onto the street, once I did, I only attempted one reverse onto their drive, rather than constantly shunt, and risk annoying the neighbours)

 

Here are a few before and after pics, 15 years apart, they are on the same spot, but as you can see in the later ones she is a little further over, but as mentioned I wasn't going to shunt and risk peeing people off:

 

 

 

 

 

 

In recent months, in an attempt to sort the garage out there have been a succession of raids, where things have been pulled out, then dumped back in, which made the job harder, as the spare wheel carrier was in two parts, right at the back of this lot (it's just to the left of the window):

 

 

I extracted both parts, but was then faced with the problem of getting them onto the back of the wagon. My mum and dad are too old to be humping things like that around, so I decided to use my old painting trestles, place the item on the plank, then raise the plank at each end by moving the trestle out then back in with my foot, it worked ok, but was a bit too hairy really:

 

 

 

 

 

After a couple of hours, all was loaded, inlcuding some rubbish for the bins at work, and I was on the way back from Bradford to Leeds:

 

 

The spare wheel carrier was steam cleaned, and painted and was fitted into place at 2am last Thursday, by yours truly outside in the dark using the outside overhead gantry!

I couldn't pick up the spare wheel from the garage as there wasn't the room for it, and to be honest I hadn't the energy to lift it into the back. Now the spare wheel carrier is fitted and working, I will go and collect it.

[Swill1952xs]

I can't compliment you enough about how well you've restored your truck. It really does look smart. If it took you fifteen years to get it that far; I think my target for getting mine on the road this year is being a bit optimistic. So far the biggest delay has been underestimating the cost of the work I've had done; and finding the money for the next stage.

I restored a 1968 Daimler 420 back in the eighties, and that took me five years to complete. I spent around five grand on that restoration.

Even though I haven't had the money to move on just yet: I have been using the time to sort out my spare engine so all is not lost.

 

I bet you felt really proud, turning up at your parents house with it. No doubt all those years ago they probably called you mad, and said you will get bored with it and it will sit in the corner rotting away for ever. :-D

 

Next a question for you.............. On the spare wheel carrier there is a filter housing. My Albion has one the same, but it has been blanked off. Is it a filter for the air compressor, as it's linked to the air filter, or is it an Alcohol evaporator for use in cold weather. It has what looks like a filler plug on the side and obviously draws clean air from the air filter, so I wondered if the filler was a place to put air drying alcohol to stop the brakes freezing. ............. Wacha fink?

[AndyFowler]

Wow Simon ! Lovely job ! I do love a story with a happy ending ! Well done ! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Simon Daymond]

ta for that, the unit on the spare wheel carrier is to stop the air system freezing.

 

When I was steam cleaning the parts of the spare wheel carrier before painting, I found this:

 

 

It reads;

 

UNIT COLLECTING

RAOC SS

ATT 36 COMD WKSP REME

COLCHESTER ESSEX

 

 

CWL 812811789 - 2 of 2

 

W 0-0-06

 

Underneath REME, there is a stamped green star, next to which is written 08.

 

 

The label was sellotaped to the underneath of an aluminium panel, which sits underneath the spare wheel carrier, on top of the chassis as a sort of cover. The sellotape had been painted over, and the card was exposed when I blasted the paint off.

 

I think it is a collection/ parts ticket, but I would be interested to know what the writing meant, and where the workshop was, and whether the item was fitted there, or was it fitted by the UNIT, as it states 'they' were collecting it.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Simon Daymond
spelling

[Swill1952xs]

That little piece of paper has probably doubled the value of your truck. Worth more than its weight in gold.

You can't get better information on a truck than that, can you. :shocked:

[Simon Daymond]

think next job, is to write off for the history, just need to find the relevant thread on the forum.

[6 X 6]

think next job, is to write off for the history, just need to find the relevant thread on the forum.

 

http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=7682

[Smithy]

Absolutely cracking job Simon. It is certainly a credit to you the way it has ended up looking.

Doesn't look like much has changed in the background of the before and after pictures either by the lookout of it apart from a couple of hedges growing!!! :-D

[gritineye]

Looks a treat Simon, well worth all that effort. :thumbsup:

[Simon Daymond]

well just when I thought it was all back together... I'd gone down to work with the intention of refitting the oil-bath air cleaner, which resides in the back of the militant at the moment. When I went to drop the tailboard to get the aircleaner I noticed that the metalwork around the back end was parting company with the body. I knew that the back body required attention, but I was hoping to do the season, and make a start this winter, however this is not going to be the case. With running, all the loose bits etc are simply falling off. The rear crossmember that the tailboard hinges and the rear floor sits on, was rotten in the right hand corner, I knew about this but thought it would hold up. The wood was disintegrating and leaving the outer steel surround which is only a couple of mm thick, to take the weight of the hinges etc, so as a result it was starting to bend.

I had thought that I could splice a bit of wood into the affected part, but realised that to do this I would need to remove the tailboard, the hinges and the outer metal framework to gain access. After a short while ( 2 hours) all the bolts were out, and the metal was removed, as is so often the case the wood behind is completetly shot, so it's a new crossmember.

I'll post some pictures later.

[Swill1952xs]

Sorry to hear of the setback after how nice you made it look. It'll be nice to see the pictures later. I'll put the kettle on when you are back........ :-D

[Simon Daymond]

here are a few pics of the rotten rear cross member, pictures are taken after the tailboard has been removed, along with the hinges and back metalwork. The remaining steel has been cleaned and primed in these pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

there should be wood in this gap, it all fell out and went in the bin

 

 

 

 

the left hand side isn't much better:

 

 

 

 

the rear steelwork, after de-scaling and a coat of thick zinc-phosphate primer

 

 

 

I've ordered the wood for the member, hopefully it should arrive for Thursday, then get fitted either Thursday of Friday night.

[Simon Daymond]

Few more pics of the back end, the member was removed with the aid of a hammer, it literally fell apart and was swept up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first of many problems encountered, the member offered up fits perfectly on the N/S

 

 

 

 

 

 

but on the O/S the body has dropped

 

 

 

 

 

so out with the jack

 

 

 

 

and in place

 

 

 

 

with some primer

 

 

 

 

the back end did get built up a few days later, the metalwork was bolted back on, and I used it as a guide to drill all the holes for the hinges etc. Just to save up now for some wood for the flooring, which as you can see from the pics is beyond saving, none of the planks on the floor have any strength left, that's why there's a piece of ply in the back as a a temporary measure. I should have invested in a cover years ago, and wouldn't be having this problem now, it cost £20 from ebay, it's horrible, but it's keeping the back bone dry.

[abn deuce]

As long as it does the job, looks can be second . I know that price is very important as well . If others talk trash about it , let them buy you a proper canvas !

[Simon Daymond]

it does the job whilst parked up, we've had plenty of rain, and that's what has ruined the back woodwork in the past. Luckily only the floor has really suffered, but I wanted to protect the sides before they go the same way.