Bystander Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 You are right. There is nothing really that technically advanced in WW1 tank construction. It is all just big and very heavy. They were built over 90 years ago (in many instances by firms that also made traction engines) so a lot of the complicated problems that you have with new MV's today just wont exist. Firms build replica boilers for traction engines and steam loco's, so the technology for that cant be too far removed from tank construction. Anyway, the Germans built that replica A7V tank in the 1980's, so it has already been done. Admittedly that cost many £Millions, but then again so did Peppercorn. Tim (too) Agreed, although having spent some time poking around inside and outside the MkIV in Bovington, there are quite a lot of forgings involved, even the track construction is quite a lot more complicated than one first might think from a cursory examination. Then of course there is the (probable) construction of the engine from scratch. But yes I agree the enginering is fundamentally advanced blacksmithing and is achievable. As long as the work is carried out in house I don't think that one is anywhere near talking about a cost in the millions. If one procured in everything commercially and paid a commercial firm to assemble and manage it then I agree one would end up at A7V replica cost levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bystander Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I reckon we should go in feet first and start with the MkV - Male for preference if the Mk V was still split between Male & Female variants. Gets my vote too, given that the only operable one is in a very frail state I understand, I cannot think of anything else that is remotely more important and is within the scope of amateur skills. The earlier tanks, without a differential, are far too difficult too drive - I understand that the MkIV 'Excellent' at Bovington is also theoretically a runner, but it takes too many people to drive it and that the risk of inflicting catastrophic damage to it by poorly co-ordinated brakesmanship is too great to use it. Perhaps someone better informed could say more? Besides which the Male MkV is the archetypical WWI tank in my humble view. Still think that repatriation of the British exhibits at the APG should also be an objective though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Check out Peter Jackson's Mk IV replica in New Zealand: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzk53VoKmtI http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s3i2lKqPJxI&NR=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Here you go - the story behind the A1 locomotive (inc. video footage of the beast in action) - the bloke behind it all reckoned he was geting a 70% discount on parts and materials... That would cut the costs of building a Mk V substantially!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7741449.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Producing the basic hull for a WWI tank is not a problem once the original drawings can be sourced thanks to modern CAD and CNC. Riviting it up is not a problem either. Castings and forgings of the blacksmith variety. Surely amongst the ranks of this Forum there are folks with the skills and facilities to contribute their efforts in kind not money. The engine may seem an impossibility but have you considered that there is probably someone out there that has one before any thought of castings etc are thought of. It's not that long ago that a replica of a wright flyer was built and one of the original engines was found. That's the easy bit, or fairly easy bit! Problem number 1 is where would it be done? and 2 Who funds it? I would say that due to the way the HMVF is set up and operated the the Lottery is a no no. One plus is that in WWI they were designed to built not only as a fighting machine but also that companies who could cut and rivet heavy plate could make the basic hull with unskilled labour. 90 years on assuming the place and the money can be found it should not be a huge problem unless you pick somewhere south of Watford Gap!! Phil P. 75 WWI tanks built at Metro Cammell's Old Park works Wednesbury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 How about a Renault FT 17 tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 How about one of the WW1 supply tanks, then you don't have to worry about building de-ac weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 A Renault? Urrgh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Maybe Phil, but a lot of people used 'em. The yanks used them in 1917 /18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Maybe Phil, but a lot of people used 'em. The yanks used them in 1917 /18. That's a good reason to stick with the Mk V idea then!! (no offense intended to the US members - just that a lot of the older kit here is US built & badged) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 All very relevant points. However i do have a very thick and comprehensive manual on the US built version of the FT17 which is always useful. I am not sure how much there is in the way of surviving plans and drawings of some of these early tanks. I know when they recreated A7V they studied the sole survivor in minute detail, so i guess having an original is always helpful. I would agree with the earlier point that if i had the money i would use it to restore an original survivor as oppsed to build a replica, which then takes me back to the original idea of this thread of what vehicle that either no longer exists or is beyond returning to running condition would be a favourite to recreate? Some excellent ideas so far, but has anybody got any other good ones? I suppose that you could say the Hathi was a recreation and a most worthwhile one as well, so i am not just restricting the aims up to 1918. Can anybody suggest anything later? Tim (too) Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Well Tim, as you've thrown down the gauntlet, how about a 'Gosling'? More seriously, a Karrier KT4 gun tractor or Morris-Commercial CS9 armoured car would be near the top of my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Before those with jeepitis mention recreating 6x6 versions or the Nuffield 'jeep' - they've been done before to a greater or lesser degree. That said, I give full respect to this recreation of the Bantam pilot: http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=127942 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 How about the 'Great Panjandrum'. That would cause a bit of excitement at Beltring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Let's go reaLLY mad, how about the Russian first tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 How about the 'Great Panjandrum'. That would cause a bit of excitement at Beltring! That is a brilliant idea. I dont know why i didnt think of it before. No engine, no steering, no body work. All we need is to make two traction engine type wheels, a metal drum joining them together and some rockets for motive power. Then we need to borrow an insane dog to chase it and we can launch it at Beltring. Brilliant. Tim 9too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 Let's go reaLLY mad, how about the Russian first tank? That is another brilliant idea. I presume it is the "Tsar" that you are talking about. As far as i know there is just the one photo of it, so there are not many people who could say that we made some mistakes on it. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 And in case someone does not know what a Grand Panjandrum is here is a link (rather ridiculously described as "British war time follies") to a clip of one being tested. The clip also has the rather exciting "Aquatow" and the rockets used instead of parachutes to slow down supplies dropped out of aeroplanes. Admittedly, the last one was not as succesful as it could be. It appears that in testing the supply container hit the ground with the aerodynamics of a small house which then ignited the rockets, causing it to fly back up into the air again. Worth watching Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 That is another brilliant idea. I presume it is the "Tsar" that you are talking about. As far as i know there is just the one photo of it, so there are not many people who could say that we made some mistakes on it. Tim (too) Yes been trying to find a picture, seems people were so embarrased very few were taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 wikipedia's listing of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Tank another listing http://www.nemo.nu/ibisportal/5pansar/5sidor/tsartank1.htm http://www.geocities.com/MadisonAvenue/Boardroom/7104/tsar/tsar_tank_main.htm and lastly a site for all those weird tank designs around the world. http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/03/strange-tanks.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 Thats the fellow. Now that would be good fun at Beltring. You would need a whole lot of bicycle spokes to recreate that. Back to the grand panjandrum, wasnt there one on Dads Army? What was the episode called, as i cant find it on Youtube. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 The other night on the box was a piece of film showing an apparent replica of a 'Great Panjandrum' also on was a piece about Dad's Army, unfortunatley as I was in a semi comatosed state from some intense inerrogation of a guy called Jim Beam I probably mixed it up but there definatley was one in Dad's Army or a piece of film footage. I also recall there were two versions one having 2 wheels and one having 3 wheels in a row with 2 drums. It appears that it was deliberatley tested in front of the public as the news reels would be seen by the Germans and believe it to be a hoax. This was the idea as the Great Panjandrum was not a hoax but an actual beach assault weapon! There doesn't appear to be any referance to it being used but that doesn't mean it wasn't. Another vehicle that would be really easy to reproduce is the Bedford Giraffe. All you need is a Bedford QL and a load of steel angle and some brave pills. There are lots of pics of them and somebody did a kit of it. There may be one preserved? The Thornycroft Terrapin MK I would be an interesting project. It did see active service and they were used in a famous invasion but been as I cannot find my book with it in it is a 'tinternet' job! Phil P (currently scratch building a Warflat.......4mm scale) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) are you sure it was with mr Jim Bean and not being interrogated by a Captain Morgan who would be more inline with this forum's ranking structure Edited December 16, 2008 by abn deuce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Another vehicle that would be really easy to reproduce is the Bedford Giraffe. All you need is a Bedford QL and a load of steel angle and some brave pills. There are lots of pics of them and somebody did a kit of it. There may be one preserved? Hi Phil, According to Bedford's war history, there was only a prototype Giraffe. It would seem that waterproofing techniques negated the extremes of build lorries like that. It would be like driving a double decker bus from the top :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I cannot see any point wasting time re-creating a 'Great Panjandrum'. The whole idea was totally flawed, and doomed never to work. If you were not a mad scientist, but anyone with a ounce of common sense you would see you have a design where a wheel rests on the ground, and it's weight prevents it from slipping and all the rockets on the lower half of the contraption are trying to push it in the opposite direction to its intended line of travel, and it has no hope whatsoever of being a success. If we want to highlight British stupidity, lets build one, but please let us forget we were trying to win a war, but still wasting time and money on something a schoolkid could see COULD NOT WORK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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