Scammell Explorer - Front hub seals.

[graham germany]

Hi everyone. Now that the rally season is all but over, I thought I'd get right on the case for some winter maintainance, before the christmass festivities blur and distract thinking paterns ! So with this in mind I removed the front hubs for a break reline. Not much shoe wear found and no wonder they never sqeaked, Rocoll grease works !!! The early style seals (pre chassis 8062 ) have disintigrated and not even enough remains for a patern. Now what I need is two new seals (either pre chassis 8062 or the post garter type) or some very good idea's and or leads ! Many thanks Graham G.

[gritineye]

Now what I need is two new seals (either pre chassis 8062 or the post garter type) or some very good idea's and or leads ! Many thanks Graham G.

 

Hi Graham, no doubt you've seen the state of my seals on another thread, not as bad as yours though. I have bought some special sticky grease with the intention of using it in the props and the hubs, so far only one application in the props and some has been thrown out as usual! But it may get better as more of the old grease gets forced out each time.

 

My idea is to use this in the front hubs as it is so sticky it shouldn't get anywhere near the brakes even with bad seals. The only thing in the way is I have to work out some way of stopping the lube from the Tracta joint getting into the hub when the axle is at full travel, maybe a felt seal will do.

[Richard Farrant]

I have bought some special sticky grease with the intention of using it in the props and the hubs, so far only one application in the props and some has been thrown out as usual!

 

 

Bernard,

 

Is that one of those special greases used on HGV trailer hubs? I have come across this being used on the semi-trailers in the yard where I work from, it is made by a German axle manufacturer and is blue coloured, no residual oil in it and a very high melting point. I am now using it on older vehicles which do not have seals adequate for normal modern grease, such as felts, etc.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Bernard,

 

Is that one of those special greases used on HGV trailer hubs? I have come across this being used on the semi-trailers in the yard where I work from, it is made by a German axle manufacturer and is blue coloured, no residual oil in it and a very high melting point. I am now using it on older vehicles which do not have seals adequate for normal modern grease, such as felts, etc.

I think be is trying True Blue cobber.

[gritineye]

It is indeed blue Richard, so it maybe the same type of stuff, it is very sticky, got mine from here.

 

http://www.trubluoil.co.uk/#/uhtepgrease/4531029686

 

Bought it from them on ebay cheaper that quoted on the website.

[Richard Farrant]

It is indeed blue Richard, so it maybe the same type of stuff, it is very sticky, got mine from here.

 

http://www.trubluoil.co.uk/#/uhtepgrease/4531029686

 

Bought it from them on ebay cheaper that quoted on the website.

 

 

Bernard,

 

Got mine from local factors, it is marketed by BPW, the German trailer axle manufacturer, but I suspect now, that it is TruBlu. Off hand I think I paid about £35 for a tin same size as 5 litre paint can, should last me a while.

[6 X 6]

so far only one application in the props and some has been thrown out as usual! But it may get better as more of the old grease gets forced out each time.

 

 

 

This sounds like a marvelous product and I'll certainly be buying some but isn't it being a bit optimistic expecting it to adhere to surfaces already greased with conventional non-sticky grease ? I don't know but surely one would need to remove all traces of oil and grease before the Tru Blu stuff could bond with a bearing and resist being expelled ? Has anyone experience of this ? Do you you need to degrease before using Tru Blu ? Thanks.

[Richard Farrant]

This sounds like a marvelous product and I'll certainly be buying some but isn't it being a bit optimistic expecting it to adhere to surfaces already greased with conventional non-sticky grease ? I don't know but surely one would need to remove all traces of oil and grease before the Tru Blu stuff could bond with a bearing and resist being expelled ? Has anyone experience of this ? Do you you need to degrease before using Tru Blu ? Thanks.

 

Not sure about TruBlu blue grease, but according to the lable on the blue grease I have from BPW, it should not be mixed with other types of grease. I forget the specific wording.

[gritineye]

Here is a copy of the email I sent to them when CW first put me onto this stuff.

 

Hi,

 

I have a Scammell Explorer break down tractor, a common problem with these vehicles is that the rear prop-shaft UJ breaks up with disastrous results. The prop-shaft angles are quite steep and the speed is high. The official MOD solution was to lubricate every 60 miles with oil. Most owners now use a modern grease, and lube every time they move! The grease always gets thrown out via the seals and a lot is needed to purge the joint each time.

 

Will your UHTEP grease help in this situation? One problem I can foresee is that of purging it through to push out all the old grease , would I have to take the joints apart?

 

Another problem I have with this vehicle is that the front wheel hub seals are unobtainable, and the brake shoes have become contaminated, will this grease stay in the hub if applied sparingly?

 

And their reply

 

Thank you for your inquiry.

 

I am sorry to hear of your problems with your vehicle! We do have a lot of inquiries regarding our U.H.T.E.P Grease, and so far every single one has been rectified using it. The grease is unbelievably sticky and its hard to convince potential customers how good it is without being able to show them. With regards to having the old grease still in there Tru Blu U.H.T.E.P Grease will stick to anything- including lower quality grease. I can understand parts being unobtainable for such a rare vehicle, but can assure you the grease will stay where it is put. For an example, we had a large gardening machinery company who could not put a warranty on one of their combine harvesters as the spindles were seizing due to the poor quality grease they were using was getting too hot and turning to liquid, causing the spindles to seize. They tried U.H.T.E.P Grease and they could put a two year warranty on that particular machine. Another example of the high quality of our products is that they are used by Ford New Holland Australia- An enormous plant company who manufacturer some enormous machines!

 

 

As you can see the answer sidesteps the question, but we all know that to get anything to stick there has to be a clean surface. I am going to strip and clean the hub bearings for that reason, will most likely just try a few goes with the props to see if it stays in better, before I pull them apart.

[6 X 6]

Gritineye,

Thank you for such a comprehensive reply. Well, if it does what it says on the tin, any time spent disassembling and thoroughly degreasing the PS UJ's before introducing the sticky stuff to ensure that it is effective would be time very well spent.

 

It just does go to show how far ahead of it's time the Scammell transmission lay out was that it has taken until now for the lubrication industry to catch up and provide a suitable grease.

 

Gritineye, do let us know how you get on with props and hubs. Thanks.

[N.O.S.]

This sounds like a marvelous product and I'll certainly be buying some but isn't it being a bit optimistic expecting it to adhere to surfaces already greased with conventional non-sticky grease ? I don't know but surely one would need to remove all traces of oil and grease before the Tru Blu stuff could bond with a bearing and resist being expelled ? Has anyone experience of this ? Do you you need to degrease before using Tru Blu ? Thanks.

 

I have to agree with you 100% on cleaning all old grease out.

 

With regard to the availability problem with hub seals, the seal runs on a bearing spacer and fits in a housing. Are there any seals available near to the original size which could be used if either the housing or bearing spacer were machined to suit?

 

Looking at the Constructor parts book, it looks like the pre-8062 Explorer seal might be the same as pre-8531 Constructor seal.

 

Early type seal (Weston) is 5.625" x 6.881" x 0.562"

Late type is 6.5" x 7.506" x 5/8".

 

Are these definitely not availble?

[Richard Farrant]

Early type seal (Weston) is 5.625" x 6.881" x 0.562"

Late type is 6.5" x 7.506" x 5/8".

 

Are these definitely not availble?

 

Pioneer Weston list seals near to those sizes, in metal case with leather seal ;

 

5.625 x 6.875 x 0.562 WL665

 

6.5 x 7.500 x 0.500 WL1078 ( and WRT672, rubber encase seal with dirt lip)

[Chrisg]

If its an external seal that is a seal that the sealing lip is on the outside almost certainly not available.

 

If an internal seal that is a "normal type" that the sealing lip is internal

The first is a bit of an odd outside size

 

The second looks to be a good size.

I'll have a check tomorrow

[gritineye]

NOS, see post #71 fixes and workarounds, for seal type, thanks for the input.

[Chrisg]

NOS, see post #71 fixes and workarounds, for seal type, thanks for the input.

 

That's an odd looking seal. Is it the sealing face that's got a bit missing?

[Richard Farrant]

NOS, see post #71 fixes and workarounds, for seal type, thanks for the input.

 

 

Ah , I can remember it now on looking at post#71. Probably the easist way is to make up a seal carrier to bolt in place with a seal pressed in. I once had to fit a new hub seal to a US M series truck carrying an Honest John rocket launcher. The army would not go to any length to obtain the correct seal, but I found that a hub seal for Rockwell axle as used on Foden, Bed TM, etc had same shaft size, so we turned up a steel ring to press seal in then pressed ring in hub. Where theres a will theres a way :-D

[graham germany]

Gritineye

Your U.H.T.E.P Grease does seem to be the Mutts Nuts. The Explorer front hub oil seal is not just to retain oil but also to stop ingress of water, road grime and break dust, which if unchecked will act as a grinding paste. So a change of grease type is just side stepping the issue.

My seal man assures me he can make any seal, but he does need a patern or drawing to work from------anyone got one, or prepared to remove a hub to get one ???

 

Graham G.

[N.O.S.]

Pioneer Weston list seals near to those sizes, in metal case with leather seal ;

 

5.625 x 6.875 x 0.562 WL665

 

6.5 x 7.500 x 0.500 WL1078 ( and WRT672, rubber encase seal with dirt lip)

 

The narrower width of the second one is no problem, particularly as rubber cased outer. We often have to use thinner seals on older stuff!!

 

Gritineye, that is one whacky seal! Can it be adapted to use a conventional shaft seal on the bearing spacer, as per the later type?

[gritineye]

a change of grease type is just side stepping the issue.

My seal man assures me he can make any seal, but he does need a patern or drawing to work from------anyone got one, or prepared to remove a hub to get one ???

 

Graham G.

 

Agree about the sidestepping (but I've told you before about that MUD :-D)

and I think it will be OK for slightly worn seals for us dry landers!

 

Here is a pic of the two types so folk can see the problem you have easier

seal 1.PDF

[N.O.S.]

Looks like you cannot simply get a couple of later type seal housings from a scrapper, as the hub looks to be machined differently.

 

But it ought to be possible to modify the original seal housings with a fairly simple adapter to take the later type seal, or another suitable 6.5" seal as the bearing spacer (i.e. seal path) is the same.

[gritineye]

Graham, as you've always been diligent in carrying out regular soak tests on your seals, :shake: and I can't see you changing your habits, :nono: they need to work proper!

 

 

As far as I can see the only sensible thing to do is to change the complete hubs for later the type with new seals, finding a pair that someone will part with is the next problem. Just noticed the dust cover is held by the distance piece, which may be shorter to allow for this, piece so those parts may be needed also.

Edited October 28, 2008 by gritineye

[graham germany]

Update on seals. Seal run tube made and pushed on stub axle. Existing seal metal fixing plates altered with aditional metal dics to facilitate use of two 175 x 153 x 10mm standard oil seals. Not cheap but the way forward. Will pass on details if required.

[gritineye]

Yes please Graham, good work, any pix?