bedford mw??

[rippo]

Hello,

What thread type would have been used on bedfords?

i'm pretty sure its bsw but just want to check. every bolt i've undone so far has been metric, and half the coach bolts in the body have been replaced with 13mm instead of 5/8 and it stands out like a sore thumb once you've noticed it.

 

Also the rear body securing bolts have been replaced. so can some one confirm, the body is bolted in four places with 9/16 bolts, two coach bolts straight through the chassis at the rear, tail board end.

At the front, cab end, two bolts (should these be coach bolts to?) that run on either side of the chassis to a plate that clamps under the chassis, on ether side.

 

If this is right could someone give me the dimensions of the clamping plate at the front as mine hace been poorly remade.

 

Thanks

Edited August 17, 2008 by rippo

[HotBed]

wot o rippo, my 1944 austin is bsw so i would have thought bedfords were and ive been told by my supplier of bolts says you can only get coach bolts in metric wether thats true i cant say but i tryed another place and got the same reply

 

regards graham

[No Signals]

Pretty sure everything original on my MW is BSWhitworth. I will measure up the clamping plates set-up and take a pic or two sometime this weekend. From memory in mine there is some kind of plate arrangement on the inside of the bed, not bolt heads, holding the lot down. Of course these may not be the original arrangement as I know the woodwork was replaced sometime in the none too distant past. I reckon if Richard finds this thread he will put you right with all the answers.

[woa2]

Hello,

What thread type would have been used on bedfords?

i'm pretty sure its bsw but just want to check. every bolt i've undone so far has been metric, and half the coach bolts in the body have been replaced with 13mm instead of 5/16 and it stands out like a sore thumb once you've noticed it.

 

Also the rear body securing bolts have been replaced. so can some one confirm, the body is bolted in four places with 9/16 bolts, two coach bolts straight through the chassis at the rear, tail board end.

At the front, cab end, two bolts (should these be coach bolts to?) that run on either side of the chassis to a plate that clamps under the chassis, on ether side.

 

If this is right could someone give me the dimensions of the clamping plate at the front as mine hace been poorly remade.

 

Thanks

This set up attaching the rear body to the chassis is identical to my Ford WOT2. Also all the bolts used on the cab or Body (Ford actually call it a Float) are Whitworth as they were made by Briggs Motor Bodies, a British firm. Everything mechanical is AF, usually UNC. I will measur the plate on my WOT2 and let you know the size.

[Richard Farrant]

Pretty sure everything original on my MW is BSWhitworth.

I reckon if Richard finds this thread he will put you right with all the answers.

 

I was going to reply to this one yesterday. The rear body work is more than likely to have Whitworth ( BSW ) bolts in it as that was the standard thread for coachbolts in those days. But..........when you come to the chassis, engine and mechanicals, you will find the threads are American National Fine and National Coarse.

[antarmike]

I don't know exectly when during the war BSW was introduced, before that it was Whitworth. British Standard Whitworth reduced the head size of the old Whitworth standard by one spanner size. The spanner that used to fit a 7/16" Whit therefore became the spanner size for 1/2" BSW. If the MW was early wartime it probably had whitworth not BSW bolts. These are now impossible to find. The new standard (BSW) with the smaller heads for the same shank dia was an attempt to save metal.

 

There would have been a lot of stock of old standard Whitworth bolts being used up during the whole war period, and occasionally you will find Old whitworthn standard bolts on 1950's and even 60's equipment. It just depends on how much stock the manufacturer was holding when the standard changed.

 

WHITWORTH is not the same as BRITISH STANDARD WHITWORTH (BSW)

Edited August 16, 2008 by antarmike

[Richard Farrant]

WHITWORTH is not the same as BRITISH STANDARD WHITWORTH (BSW)

 

Mike,

 

Not the same ?.........only in the head size, everything else is the same, pitch, angle, thread form. The term BSW was introduced in the mid Fifties, but for someone who is not brought up with all this, it is easier to call it BSW, so they can find data, threadcutting tools, etc. My father was in engineering from start of WW2 and he told me that the heads were reduced to save on materials, early in the war, even then they are larger than equivalent Unified bolts.

[antarmike]

Yes, I agree only the across flats size of the nuts and bolts changed, but if seeing Metric or UNF/ UNC or ANF/ANC on a wartime British vehicle offends you, then if they should be Whitworth, BSW looks just as wrong as these do!

 

I personally am fed up with peoples inablity to distiguish between Whitwort and British Standard Whitworth. Don't you get fed up when someone asks you to pass them a 5/16 Whit spanner, which I do, only to be told, no that's too big, I want the next one down? If they had asked for a 5/16 BS spanner, I would passed them the right size.

 

Whitworth and BSW are not the same, and asking for a spanner, without being precise, will soon get you the wrong tool.

 

 

Older spanners only have the Whit size stamped on them, more modern spanners (usually) have both sizes stamped on the spanner. Having two sizes marked on one spanner shows that spanner fits different dia bolts from two distinct systems. Eg a spanner will now say 5/16 W / 3/8 BS. But I am sure you know this.

 

Most screw thread data charts list Whitworth seperately from BSW.

Edited August 16, 2008 by antarmike

[Richard Farrant]

I personally am fed up with peoples inablity to distiguish between Whitwort and British Standard Whitworth. Dont you get fed up when someone asks you to pass them a 5/16 Whit spanner, which I do, only to be told, no that's too big, I want the next one down. If they had asked for a 5/16 BS spanner, I would passed them the right size.

 

Whitworth and BSW are not the same, and asking for a spanner, without being precise, will soon get you the wrong tool.

 

Hi Mike,

 

I agree totally, re. bolt heads and Unified or Metric used on older vehicles, they stand out a mile, but BSW against Whit are not quite so bad and at least it keeps the thread form to a standard. On my restorations, I endeavour to keep to BSF or what ever it might be on the particular vehicle, but things like wartime Bedfords and British Fords can be a bit of a mongrel when you look at them, bodywork predominatly Whit, whilst NF and NC on chassis and running gear. Coming on later, the Land Rover 90/110 was still using BSF threads in the axles, Unified threads in engine, etc., and Metric elsewhere.

 

Your comments on spanner sizes is true, the amount of people who think, for example, a 1/2" A/F spanner means that the thread is 1/2" .

 

But.......what is more infuriating is not using the correct spanner for the nut or bolt. I have observed many using Metric or A/F on Whit, BSW or BSF and not even having the correct spanners for their vehicle :shake: :nono: no wonder the corners are always rounded off :-(

[antarmike]

Me thinks there is abit of that going on in the first post in this thread because the nearest metric equivilent to 5/16" is 8mm, and M8 uses a 13mm across flats spanner.. It is highly unlikely that someone has used a 13mm bolt. It is rare to see a 14mm bolt, but I have never come across a 13mm in my whole life!

[Richard Farrant]

Me thinks there is abit of that going on in the first post in this thread because the nearest metric equivilent to 5/16" is 8mm, and M8 uses a 13mm across flats spanner.. It is highly unlikely that someone has used a 13mm bolt. It is rare to see a 14mm bolt, but I have never come across a 13mm in my whole life!

 

:-D :-D well spotted, Mike :thumbsup:

[rippo]

Well this is an education for me.

 

I always wondered about the diffrent sized nuts used, now i know. the wars got alot to answer for!!

 

I'm 32 and served my time in engineering as a machinist/fitter and have only ever come across the "larger sized" spanners at autojumbles and rattling around in my dad's toolbox, no wonder everytime i got him a 1/2 spanner he grumbled it was the wrong one!! Quite an easy idea to grasp but if it's never taught to you, you never know and in my nine years at college it wasn't mentioned once.

 

Mike calm down its not that bad.

 

My original post did only ask the thread type, i quoted the nut sizes just as in indication

 

I quoted the nut size's, 13mm and 5/16" which should be 5/8" my mistake..

 

Does anyone know of a dealer specializing in old nut and bolts. I'm sure there's some about.

Edited August 17, 2008 by rippo

[antarmike]

Well this is an education for me.

 

I always wondered about the diffrent sized nuts used, now i know. the wars got alot to answer for!!

 

I'm 32 and served my time in engineering as a machinist/fitter and have only ever come across the "larger sized" spanners at autojumbles and rattling around in my dad's toolbox, no wonder everytime i got him a 1/2 spanner he grumbled it was the wrong one!! Quite an easy idea to grasp but if it's never taught to you, you never know and in my nine years at college it wasn't mentioned once.

 

Mike calm down its not that bad.

 

My original post did only ask the thread type, i quoted the nut sizes just as in indication

 

I quoted the nut size's, 13mm and 5/16" which should be 5/8" my mistake..

 

Does anyone know of a dealer specializing in old nut and bolts. I'm sure there's some about.

 

E-quip in Market Rasen are quite good for imperial