big chris Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 hi grit in eye we did some research into the cummins l10 engine when we bought one your conversion is not what i was expecting at all have you used the twin plate clutch? the way i was going to fit it was by using the single plate clutch on the l10 as this matches rear bellhousing fitted to the meadows petrol also with a different clutch plate it would also marry upto the meadows input shaft without much modin the metalastic should go straight back on the worst job i thought would be was front and rear mounts to get engine in line perfectly but obviously this has not been put into practice yet and was measured up to be fitted but i thought the single plate clutch was of an iso standard as is the meadows engine so on paper should go straight on:coffee: fan would also need to be raised thanks chrisps keep lessons coming its always good to share information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Any Denton has used the single plate clutch, I have a pic I will find but it doesn't show much. I had a limited budget but plenty of time, it's still working OK. want to know about the turbo next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 (edited) Actually looking at this pic I'm not sure if Andy Denton has used the single plate clutch in Lightning, he had to have what he called a 'top hat section' turned up to recess the bearing, that cost way too much for me! Don't know what the shaft is, maybe Constructor? It is a much better engineered solution I must admit. Edited September 11, 2008 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 hi grit in eye we did some research into the cummins l10 engine when we bought one your conversion is not what i was expecting at all have you used the twin plate clutch? the way i was going to fit it was by using the single plate clutch on the l10 as this matches rear bellhousing fitted to the meadows petrol also with a different clutch plate it would also marry upto the meadows input shaft without much modin the metalastic should go straight back on the worst job i thought would be was front and rear mounts to get engine in line perfectly but obviously this has not been put into practice yet and was measured up to be fitted but i thought the single plate clutch was of an iso standard as is the meadows engine so on paper should go straight on:coffee: fan would also need to be raised thanks chrisps keep lessons coming its always good to share information Chris, I had all the same thoughts, but the Scammell shaft is too short to reach the spigot bearing using the original clutch housing and I didn't want to pay out for a special clutch plate etc. I worked with what came with the engine. A friend is just finishing off his L10 conversion and I will get a look at it soon to see how it has been done. I wouldn't weld up a shaft for anyone else , but as I knew the risks of it not working I went ahead, it has been done four years now and no problems so far, I am quite prepared to re-do the clutch if I see a better way of doing it. Using the single pad front mounting makes it easy at the front and in retrospect I would make up adjustable mounts at the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 Tonights lesson is about raising the L10s fan to match the rad cowling. The engine as bought, the fan is too low and the turbo will hit the steering box. Keep the accelerator linkage cross shaft complete as well. The fan is mounted in a casting that needs to be moved up, Bolt a plate on as here Cut the thickness of the plate from the casting, (about 10 minutes, ) Measure the exact distance from the Meadows crank centre to the fan shaft centre Clamp the casting to the plate and get the same position above the crank as the Meadows, mark the holes and drill them. When its all bolted up the pulleys are not likey to be perfectly in line, adjust by rubbing the cut face on a sheet of emery cloth on a suface plate (20 minutes to infinity ) Or take the lot to a machine shop and PAY! Fit a support back to the head to stop it all bending forward as you tighten the fanbelt and the suck of the fan. I could not find a fan belt with 8 ribs to fit but this 6 rib one works OK. Thats done then, easy or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I'm going to be removing my rear wheel hubs to check the brake linings and oil seals in the next couple of weeks ! I have the workshop manual and will follow that to the best of my abilities but I would like any advice from you Scammell Explorer senior hands please ! Oh and no hysterical laughter thank you ! ! ! Regards Andy :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I'm going to be removing my rear wheel hubs to check the brake linings and oil seals in the next couple of weeks ! I have the workshop manual and will follow that to the best of my abilities but I would like any advice from you Scammell Explorer senior hands please ! Oh and no hysterical laughter thank you ! ! ! Regards Andy :-D pssssht andy when u have compleated your hubs and seals homework be sure to pass it round the class so we all can have a peek:-\ dont get caght passing notes tho:nono: ive herd the teacher liks to use a cummins fanbelt instead of the cain:n00b: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Great thread with lots of humour ,keep it up lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I'm going to be removing my rear wheel hubs Regards Andy :-D :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Have you got the correct/suitable puller + ickle slogger spanner + sledgehammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Have you got the correct/suitable puller + ickle slogger spanner + sledgehammer? ..........and the special wooden block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 Andy, correct spanner and puller ready and waiting. (won't fit the BW model though, it won't work on Araldite) But first :readbook: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Andy, you may be lucky and they will virtually fall off but I doubt it. If one refuses to budge, load up the puller as far as you dare and then give the end of puller bolt a clout with the sledge. Slacken off the brake adjusters first to avoid damaging the linings with any ridge on the drum. As Richard suggested, a shaped block of wood to support the drum makes life easier and prevents shock loads damaging the wheel bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Andy, you may be lucky and they will virtually fall off but I doubt it. If one refuses to budge, load up the puller as far as you dare and then give the end of puller bolt a clout with the sledge. Slacken off the brake adjusters first to avoid damaging the linings with any ridge on the drum. As Richard suggested, a shaped block of wood to support the drum makes life easier and prevents shock loads damaging the wheel bearings. Hi Mike, The wooden block was made for a different purpose . I worked on a lot of Explorers when they were in service, at a REME workshop. Not sure where your puller originated from, but to describe the set we had, I guess it was factory supplied, well used anyhow, even the local bus company and garages borrowed it for their demobbed Explorer recovery trucks. There was a very heavy box spanner which must have been 18" to 24" long, with a bar about 2 or 3 foot long welded at right angles at the end. The wooden block was about 8" square and stood on end to support the end of the box spanner, the top of block was radiused for the spanner to sit into. One person holding the box spanner firmly on to nut and supporting block, other person with sledge hammer welting the end of bar to release nut. Once nut is loose, the puller which looked like a modified hub cap, was bolted on to the hub, the extractor screw had same size hex head as nut, so box spanner was used again to shock the hub off, as you say, a thump on the end of the screw helps once it is loaded. The hubs should be tight on the taper shaft, else the key is likely to shear and tapers wearing. I recollect having to renew a taper shaft on one occasion, due to a loose hub and damaged keyway, the tonnage to push it out of the gearwheel was terrific, something like over 30t. Hope this is not a case of teaching grandma to suck eggs, but it all came back to me when I read the thread :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Richard, the puller I am familiar with looks like a heavy flanged bell with a large bolt through the centre. The wrench is a heavy single ended ring spanner about 3ft long, and as in your case would also fit the hub nut. I have seen pullers made from spare hub caps, but never used one and thinking about it I have seen a picture of the one you described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Richard, the puller I am familiar with looks like a heavy flanged bell with a large bolt through the centre. The wrench is a heavy single ended ring spanner about 3ft long, and as in your case would also fit the hub nut. I have seen pullers made from spare hub caps, but never used one and thinking about it I have seen a picture of the one you described. Hi Mike, If your ring spanner is flat, or slightly cranked, I guess you have to remove the wheel before using it? The purpose of the box spanner we had was that you could weild the hammer away from the tyre or vehicle, the block supporting it. When loosening the nut, it was handy to have the wheel on the ground to stop it rocking, and loading the teeth in the gearcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 When the Antar clutch is done, pulling two rear hubs on my wifes explorer is a high priority. Is there anyone not a million miles from Lincolnshire who could lend this kit in a few month's time??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Hello everyone , sorry for delay in responding have to go to work sometimes !:-D Bernard I did buy some tools a while ago from a chap who had owned several Explorers including one which had suffered a hub/wheel coming adrift in the arena at Great Dorset Steam Fair ! I'm afraid I cannot remember his name ! I have what he told me he used but have not checked the puller yet ! The spanner he sold me was a socket with a 3 foot bar which is not as illustrated in the manual so I would like to borrow yours if poss :thanx:! I will know more on Saturday as I'm working again tomo ! I think the wooden block mentioned would origionally have been the sturdy looking stand as illustrated here ,wonder if anyone still has one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I think the wooden block mentioned would origionally have been the sturdy looking stand as illustrated here , Andy, That is the puller as we had, but that support block is a bit heavy and awkward to move around, we just used a large wood block shaped at the top to suit the spanner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Lesson 5 And so now the dreaded turning of the turbo to clear the steering, this is how it came. The manifold has to be inverted and a spacer made up to put the turbo in line with the inlet, sorry lost the pix of making this bit, but lots of cardboard involved! Just welded it up and used the emery on a surface plate to true up the mating surfaces, red Hermatite for all jointing. The rear blanking plate was moved to the front hole in the manifold and the turbo connected to the rear one. The turbo has to be split and turned to position the oil feed at the top and the drain at the bottom, there is no was round this and it caused a lot of grief, (I tried heating it etc) especialy as I bid on two NOS ones on ebay and lost them! Showed it to a chap who does it all the time on rally car engines, he said used turbos sort of fuse together but no problem, it was scary but easy, this is what he said to do. Hold the turbo tight in a BIG properly fixed vice by the exhaust flange, pre-mark where you want it to end up, take off the alloy part. Remove the ring of fixing bolts and heat all round that area with your CUTTING TORCH till it's very hot. No, your welding torch won't do! Get a trusted mate ready to catch the centre part with welding gloves on and, working all round, bash it apart with a long brass or ally drift and a club hammer. No, a small hammer won't do! Turn the centre bit to where you want it to be, check the surfaces are clean and bash it back on before the whole lot cools down Always check and flat off all mating flanges by the emery on surface plate method as these can break off when tightened if not perfect, he recommended Red Hermetite. Theory was, if you don't try it's binned anyway and you've got to buy a new one. It worked for me! The original inlet casting worked perfic for me and the air cleaner on top fills the space nicely, job done, easy or what? Apart from the cost of the engine, and exhaust pipe bits, all mods to fit this engine cost me NOTHING, spare time is cheap. :banana::banana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Had a very enjoyable weekend ! I've had the two O/S/R drums off which was not as bad as I had anticipated :sweat:! Shoes have loads of meat on em and oil seals not leaking so quick deglaize top and tail em and put the drums back on :-D! The socket I used to remove em worked spot on but I would still like to borrow your Slogging spanner please Bernard just to make sure they are nice and tight ! Spent the rest of my time cleaning off fifty years of mud and paint from the walking beam ready for a nice new coat of Primer followed by Deep Bronze Green ! On the down side I have noticed that at some point in her life Daisy only had five wheels on her wagon as the N/S/R backplate has a nice flat edge on the bottom ! :shocked: I hope that the taper has not been damaged ! It would seem a bit of a design fault that there is not a locking device to prevent the N/S/R hubs coming undone as the wheel rotates but I guess you could argue that they may not have been tightened correctly at some point ! Hence my request to borrow correct tool ! May take the N/S hubs off in the week work permitting ! Fingers crossed that I don't find any serious damage ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 That's a result then Andy, no rush for the spanner now then! Interesting the locating bolts weren't wired or had you already taken it off? I reckon I've seen that box spanner before, looks like a John Bird special from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Interesting the locating bolts weren't wired or had you already taken it off? -----I had already cut the wire from the bearing retaining bolts , well spotted !------ I reckon I've seen that box spanner before, looks like a John Bird special from here.------The chap I bought it from ran a tipper fleet and had owned a couple of Explorers , a couple of Militants , a Martian and an Antar ! Wish I had a better memory for names ! When I'm ready to tighten all the hub nuts would it be ok to borrow the spanner for a day ! I can pick it up leave a deposit and drop it back ASAP ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Good to see you're making progress Andy. Luckily John Davis did all that on my Explorer (158 UXL). Unfotunately it took me a good few years to finish the rest of it. Keep up the go work! Below similar photos of the work John carried out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Spot John Bird's spanner there Andy? He is John Davis's mate, no prizes though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Thanks for the support and photos Jules ! I wonder if people will still be mad enough to enjoy these jobs in the future !:-D The socket is not the same one Bernard I think mine looks a bit beefier ! I have noticed that my Explorer has front axle and walking beams from a different vehicle as they were sand coloured at some point and the one I've stripped right back has had the front hub casing replaced ! Must have had a hard life as the cab showed signs of being rolled on to the drivers side when I dismantled the frame ! Hopefully she has now got to a well earned retirement ! :sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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