RCV Vehicle for British Signal Office 1944

[pamak]

Hi everybody,

 

I joined recently this forum because it seems to be one with many experts in British military vehicles and  my question's subject is quite obscure.

My question is related to a vehicle type mentioned in  WO 244/88 titled Standing orders for 2 Army Signals which is held at the National Archives, Kew.  The file is undated but it looks like it is from 1944.

I have attached two photos of the pages which describe the vehicles of a Signal Office at an Army HQ (British). One of the vehicles is called RCV "Remote Control Vehicle" and it appears that it has 6 remote control devices inside the van  and a penthouse with an additional 8 remote controls next to the van.

I try to learn more about this type of vehicle and the equipment it carries. I do know that the "remote control" refers to the remote control of wireless sets which are set at a distance from the signal office for security reasons. (so that the signal office cannot be located by radio direction).

So, is this is a regular wireless vehicle which is stripped of the wireless sets and retains only the remote control devices or is it a general utility truck which is equipped with remote control devices? Considering that there are 14 remote control devices (6+8), I do not believe that there was a wireless van with 14 sets which were removed. Does anybody have images of such  "RCV" vehicle with its associated remote control devices ? 

Thanks

 

 

 

[10FM68]

I'm no expert on R Signals practices, but it looks to me as though this vehicle would have the radios and the handsets would be remoted to the users in the command group established up to 100 yds away.  The idea behind this is that, while the staff officers themselves are the users, the actual radio operators dare R Signals personnel who would be located in the RCV from where they would ensure the sets stay on frequency, conduct the necessary frequency changes, ensure the links are good and keep an eye on communications security.  The users wouldn't want, or need, the radio sets themselves in their limited office space.

[pamak]

Quote

I'm no expert on R Signals practices, but it looks to me as though this vehicle would have the radios and the handsets would be remoted to the users in the command group established up to 100 yds away.  The idea behind this is that, while the staff officers themselves are the users, the actual radio operators dare R Signals personnel who would be located in the RCV from where they would ensure the sets stay on frequency, conduct the necessary frequency changes, ensure the links are good and keep an eye on communications security.  The users wouldn't want, or need, the radio sets themselves in their limited office space.

 

Thank you for the answer.  The thing that caught my attention is that the diagram shows that there are 14 (6+8) sets. I cannot think of any Royal signals wireless truck that has so many radio sets. This is why I suspect that the truck had only the much smaller remote control devices and the actual radios (with additional operators) were set (probably dispersed)  at a different location away from the signal office. I do agree with you that the staff in the command post would have some additional remote control devices to communicate, but I suspect that this would be primarily for radio-telephony of messages in clear. Messages originated at the command post which required skills like Morse code or messages that required security would have to go to the signal center, coded (notice the cipher lorry in the signal office) and then transmitted by the radio personnel in the RCV truck.  

[Chris Suslowicz]

On 11/23/2022 at 2:59 PM, pamak said:

 

Thank you for the answer.  The thing that caught my attention is that the diagram shows that there are 14 (6+8) sets. I cannot think of any Royal signals wireless truck that has so many radio sets. This is why I suspect that the truck had only the much smaller remote control devices and the actual radios (with additional operators) were set (probably dispersed)  at a different location away from the signal office. I do agree with you that the staff in the command post would have some additional remote control devices to communicate, but I suspect that this would be primarily for radio-telephony of messages in clear. Messages originated at the command post which required skills like Morse code or messages that required security would have to go to the signal center, coded (notice the cipher lorry in the signal office) and then transmitted by the radio personnel in the RCV truck.  

The "Radio Village" would have multiple vehicles, each with one or two radios fitted and would be dispersed well away from the headquarters for safety from direction finding. The "Royal Signals Pocket Book" section "Wireless Diagrams" shows the large number of communication links required at this kind of level. (Note that the Terminal Equipment Vehicle carries a 100-line telephone exchange - probably three 40 & 60 line F&F Switchboards linked together.) The actual "Remote Control" units for the radio trucks were not much larger than the "Telephone Set 'F'" used at headquarters and provided R/T and Morse facilities over telephone lines in addition to being usable as a telephone by themselves. 

 

Chris. 

[pamak]

 

double post

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by pamak
double post

[pamak]

7 hours ago, Chris Suslowicz said:

The "Radio Village" would have multiple vehicles, each with one or two radios fitted and would be dispersed well away from the headquarters for safety from direction finding. The "Royal Signals Pocket Book" section "Wireless Diagrams" shows the large number of communication links required at this kind of level. (Note that the Terminal Equipment Vehicle carries a 100-line telephone exchange - probably three 40 & 60 line F&F Switchboards linked together.) The actual "Remote Control" units for the radio trucks were not much larger than the "Telephone Set 'F'" used at headquarters and provided R/T and Morse facilities over telephone lines in addition to being usable as a telephone by themselves. 

 

Chris. 

 

Thank you for the reply Chris.

 

So, from what i understand, they collected all the Remote Control Units from the radio trucks and put them in the remote Control Vehicle in the Signal Office. Do you know if this Remote Control Vehicle had a special design or was it just another office lorry which  sheltered all the gathered remote control units?

 

Thanks,

[Chris Suslowicz]

2 hours ago, pamak said:

 

Thank you for the reply Chris.

 

So, from what i understand, they collected all the Remote Control Units from the radio trucks and put them in the remote Control Vehicle in the Signal Office. Do you know if this Remote Control Vehicle had a special design or was it just another office lorry which  sheltered all the gathered remote control units?

 

Thanks,

I think it's more a case of the RCV being a specialist office vehicle, with multiple desks inside, and a "penthouse" tent either side. The actual "Radio Village" vehicles would contain relatively high power sets for communications to adjacent units (WS53/R107), plus normal combat net radio (WS22, WS19 & WS19HP) for local forces. Line communication would be used wherever possible to avoid disclosing the HQ position, and there is a TEV full of teleprinters for cipher traffic to other major offices. The remote control units would possibly be issued to the RCV rather than the comms vehicles. It's not really my area of interest, though I foresee a visit to Kew in my future to get a copy of that document, and a need to resume scouring the internet for manuals I don't have in the Signal Training series. :-)>

It is probably worth joining the WS19 group for access to the manuals we do have... I'd recommend the Royal Signals Pocket Book "Wireless Diagrams" for the network diagrams and allocation of sets to units, and possibly Signal Training Volume V "Signal Office Organization and Procedure" or the later "Signal Centre Organization" publications.

https://royalsignals.org.uk/signals.htm#UK

...and I have some more scanning to do - maybe when I retire next year.

Best regards

Chris. (Junior Password Gnome)

[pamak]

1 hour ago, Chris Suslowicz said:

I think it's more a case of the RCV being a specialist office vehicle, with multiple desks inside, and a "penthouse" tent either side. The actual "Radio Village" vehicles would contain relatively high power sets for communications to adjacent units (WS53/R107), plus normal combat net radio (WS22, WS19 & WS19HP) for local forces. Line communication would be used wherever possible to avoid disclosing the HQ position, and there is a TEV full of teleprinters for cipher traffic to other major offices. The remote control units would possibly be issued to the RCV rather than the comms vehicles. It's not really my area of interest, though I foresee a visit to Kew in my future to get a copy of that document, and a need to resume scouring the internet for manuals I don't have in the Signal Training series. :-)>

It is probably worth joining the WS19 group for access to the manuals we do have... I'd recommend the Royal Signals Pocket Book "Wireless Diagrams" for the network diagrams and allocation of sets to units, and possibly Signal Training Volume V "Signal Office Organization and Procedure" or the later "Signal Centre Organization" publications.

https://royalsignals.org.uk/signals.htm#UK

...and I have some more scanning to do - maybe when I retire next year.

Best regards

Chris. (Junior Password Gnome)

 

Thank you for the reply,

I do have the wireless diagrams from the Signals Pocket Book and the Signal Office Organization and Procedure pamphlet. The reason I was asking the question about the RCV was because I did not find anywhere any info about it. I have become a member of the WS19 Group but it is quite technically oriented, and I do not have the required knowledge to participate in that group regularly. I am not sure about which document you may want to copy from Kew. If it is the one which contains the pictures I posted, I can send it to you. If it is a document about the RCV, I will need that too. From time to time I order the copying of documents from Kew, but I have not found any one related to the Remote Control Vehicle. Otherwise, I would have ordered it.

Best regards,

pamak