webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) By unusual I mean not part of standard squaddie CEFO including drop pouch web set, aka"SAS pouches". Firstly standard 58" belt with rollpin buckle from an ALICE rucksack, nylon seat belt. on the belt left to right: Knife pouch, Armalite/M16 pouches, 44" waterbottle, Escape pouch, 44" waterbottle, and SLR pouches. On the rear nothing special, but you can see the new belt loop and repairs I made on the 44" bottles, I carefully stitched the bottles to the ammo pouches (easily removed) to reduce the amount of movement on the belt, I use a 58" yoke (not shown) which helps to stop the rear pouches slipping around, on the front of the yoke I added 44" style C clip like the rear to attatch to the front. Edited February 25, 2019 by webkitlover clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Next a quite faded 58" issue Compass pouch, and a "SAS" Drop altimeter pouch. If you are thinking of purchasing one to protect a compass, buy the 58" version, it has a thick felt padding. there is no padding at all on the other, also you have to press the popper to close it the 58" version is a much kinder twist closure Next the rear, the alti pouch only the 2 drop belt loops so it will swing/bump around, but it has a massive grommet to attach a cord. the 58" has none. The 58" has 2 atachment poins the C hook for the belt and the strap for fitting on a vertical strap and opened nothing much to say here but the 58" has stiffners in the flaps unlike the alti version which can be totally crushed in the hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Next a twin SMG ammo pouch a very simplistic design as you can see they are very much like the SAS Drop pouches, in style and fixtures, the lid is a simple flap and it has no waterproof lining, the front clips are identical. The rear of the pouch you can see it is very simple, unlike "SAS" drop pouches there is only one belt height option. (damn white dog hair gets everywhere!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Next 58" Handgun pouch, notice the fasteners are similar to "SAS" pouches, the other Black Handgun pouch, I was given this from an EX RAF Military Policeman aparently everyone got fed up with the canvas versions, as you couldn't get to the gun fast enough, and you couldn't leave the pouch open "ready for use" this was later issued. the odd this is the black version has some metal parts that would be familiar to 58" users it is a simple pull down to unclip the tab from a square ring like all the 58" pouches, on the elasticated web tab a hook that is identical to the hook used to attatch the 58" large pack to the yoke! The 58" version has 2 belt attachments, a yoke and leg loop. The black version has 3 hanging heights! on the Black pouch the lable says: "Holster Pistol R/H 2001 NSN 8465-99-869-2072 ST 1A / 1371 " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Some mystery nylon 58" style pouches both have been and identified on other threads The fixtures are obviously closely based on 58" ammo type pouches and the over complex Kidney pouch attatchment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) A 58" machette cover, I pretty much rescued this, when I bought it it was covered in sveral layers of various colours of gloss paint including pink, red and blue, it was also ingrained with oil and dirt. You might still be able to see the faint colours towards the top of the front, I wanted to remove it all but I would have damaged the fabric. The colour was not from any haphazard army marking, i.e. coloured squares to write on or identify it, from the state of it, it was almost certainly stored in a shed and had paint spilled on it. You can see like the 44"water bottle it has a wire belt hanger, as well as a belt loop just below it The pouch didn't come with a Machette so I made a fake one, (alluminium and blunt but as close to the shape and size as I could) so I can take it to shows more leagally, the tape was added simply because when I researched army machettes to copy, most seemed to have tank tape on the handle! I didn't have long enough rivets to fit the handle so filed down hex head bolts were used one side, and washers glued on the other Edited February 25, 2019 by webkitlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Finally my "uber rare" Green 58" water bottles, yes they are genuine! I don't have the origonal lids they both came with the S10 adapter. Sadly I don't have the even rarer green cups that went with them. cool thing is they are different shades of green and even 2 manufacturers! on the right a standard Osprey bottle. They all have the familiar warning "KEEP AWAY FROM HEAT OR FLAME" and they all have the "crowsfoot arrow" center the lighter shaded "olive" coloured bottle markings are: CAT. No. 973-6665 1965 F & G (on the base F&G) The darker "forest green" markings are: CAT. No. 0035 1962 (on the base are 2 words in tiny lettering "Casealloid" and also possibly "Caseaflex") here you can see the subtle difference in the shape and design the darker left has a curved bac like the modern black version, the other is totally flat. hope you like the kit, as far as I know it's all genuine please feel free to ask anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Very nice items. I also have examples of the Cascelloid and F&G water bottles: For reasons unknown, the F&G one is it’s own unique smaller size compared to all the other P58 water bottles I’ve seen. Presumably it would have had a matching non-standard size mug as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) Hi thanks for commenting, I have seen photos online of matching sets, but as you'd know the cups are more breakable, so I guess they died and were replaced with standard black cups. Just as likely thrown away in favour of the alloy 44" pat cup which was the trend for decades before the crusader cup came along. I had a chat with someone else some years back and they said, the reason they didn't stick with Green was because light could just about get through the plastic and bacteria could grow more easily, so they went with black, same as all the much larger vehicle water containers.I think there is a definite taste difference in water from the green bottles too perhaps it's an early rejected "taste bad" plastic?. When I picked up the bottles, years ago now, it was from one of those huge 2ft x2ft boxes of surplus just full of mostly black 58" water bottles, I remember them being 50p sadly many had holes, splits, melted areas or were covered in tank tape which I assumed was probably a quick field repair. i picked out a couple of good bottles and the 2 green ones, all had the new S10 lid. I can only think the company QM or soldier they were last issued to added the S10 lids, as any one else wouldn't have needed the adapter, and the surplus store just wanted the job-lot gone, a shame to think the original lids probably collectable now, just went in a bin! Edited February 26, 2019 by webkitlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 How did you remove the paint from the fabric? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) On 2/26/2019 at 10:57 AM, robin craig said: How did you remove the paint from the fabric? Hi Robin, after a little testing as to how thick it was I gently prized most of the flaky stuff off off with a blunt penknife blade, i then tried dabs of methalated spirits, and petrol (seperately) which removed some other stains, possibly paint stained with marker pen, and the really nasty black grease or oil that was present. (white spirit would also work) IMPORTANT: Meths and petrol can leave stains, so it's importand to wash thoroughly after using them. After that I removed the petrol smell and a fair amount of further residual paint and dirt with a standard washing up brush and liquid. Lots of wrinsing later, there was still quite alot of solid pink paint deep in the fibres some of which i picked out with tweezers I think but I couldn't get it all. The patch of light pink that I just couldn't shift and was embedded so far I would have had to cut the material. so I used a sharpie (light grey and dark green I think) firstly in tiny dots then larger dots to camouflage the pink, you have to use a bit of artistic descernment here, too little and you get a spotty pouch, too much and you get a dark green blob, you have to know when to stop. You can see the darker blobs of green around the stitching at the top front of the pouch, but from a short distance you can't tell. If you zoom in on the photo (between the rivets top front) you can still see the pinky and grey paint between the threads that are still coated in paint. the sharpie gave just enough of a blend that the paint dissapeard a bit. I've done the same with many pouches and even some clothes it always seems to turn out fairly well. Wish I'd done a before and after piccy now, I will next time! I guess If I wasn't collecting it, there is always the option to re-dye a canvas item, but you'd never get the perfect colour and theres so much residual S*** in army surplus gear from engine and gun oil, spilled paint, mud, food grease to various chemicals (even CS gas) the fabric you never quite know how much would soak in. I wouldn't. Edited February 28, 2019 by webkitlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, webkitlover said: The patch of light pink that I just couldn't shift and was embedded so far I would have had to cut the material. so I used a sharpie (light grey and dark green I think) firtly in tiny dots then larger dots to camouflage the pink, you have to use a bit of artistic descernment here, too little and you get a spotty pouch too much and you get a dark green blob, you have to know when to stop. You can see the darker blobs of green around the stitching at the top front of the pouch, but from a short distance you can't tell. I've done the same with many pouches and even some clothes it always seems to turn out fairly well. Do you ever re-dye clothes or pouches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 Sorry just edided my oprevious answer which now mentions dying. Basically No! it wouldn't look right. unless all the pouches are the same colour you'll never get the right shade or colour, also the canvas pouches came with a basic waterproofing coating, which would stop dye working in some cases. The other thing is this, When I was in the Army, no one was issued (or had) a completely matching set of webbing, the set I was issued was so knackered I had to sew parts of it before I could use it. Very few soldiers had "Green pouches" most were that sort of earthy grey colour but mixed with pouches like the resipouch that were much darker the only pouches that were always green were the large pack because it had such little use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Re the Cascelloid and F&G water bottles, there was never a green mug issued with these. They were black from the introduction in 1962. I have an as new example of the bottle and mug dated 1962. Cascelloid only seems to have made the first run. I have not yet seen a 1963 dated bottle either by Cascelloid or F&G. It may well be that there was a break in production before the contracts passed to F&G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 Thats interesting, I wonder why they only made black, and why the MoD didn't just continue with an updated 44" cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Never have managed to find out why they were manufactured that way, though the cup is obviously a different type of plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 There was also a trials bottle and mug prior to the P58 that was not adopted: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1958/components/equipment/equipment_water_bottles.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) lol I was going to mention it, I saw one on E-bay once but couldn' say if it was brit issue, funny thing though, perhaps the square one was desined for the 75 issue kit? I used to have a set, and I couldn't find an Army bottle that fitted the large pouches well. but the Mess tins seemd to fit well, make of that what you want, because I'm pretty sure the pouches would have been really designed for ammo! check out the photo, I was just out on a winter adventurous hike with a friend here, (I wish I'd kept the "over-white" jacket!) I used a collection of mixed ALICE gear middle of picture, and I'd given my 75" set to my friend (on the bottom right) you can see that both main side pouches are open with american style clips to the lower right note it has non 75" pouches added. bytl 58 Gas mask pouch and a civilian made US copy waterbottle pouch. goodness knows how they were attatched, probably a fair amount of paracord and bungees, lol Edited March 5, 2019 by webkitlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Looking at those Sterling pouches. Reminded Me I have two pairs in my collection. Both Mint unissued. I was REALLY lucky with one Pair. I purchased it at a Militaria Fair, & it had newspaper stuffed inside. This was to pad it out & look 'full/ better' presented on the table top. When I got home I obviously removed the newspaper. Guess what was inside? A sealed pattern label attached with cloth ties & a wax seal! Lucky, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webkitlover Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 WOW, always a bit of a lucky dip with suplus stuff! I bought an East German "raindrop" camo jacket, rolled up neatly in the pocket, a Parachute Regt tie! Weird what you find sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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