Humber Pig MkII Squirt 12BK61

[Doc MacKinnon]

Clive will remember me from his Yahoo group- the Yank Medic with a Humber Pig.

 

It was purchased on eBay as a bit of a fluke- not really what I wanted. (I wanted a Ferret.) But after I ran the vehicle number with Bovington, and learned the historical significance of this beast, I bought it. Took a while for the wife to warm up to it...but at least I'm not going to be spending the winter months in it. :lol:

 

Of course when I got it, I didn't know I'd get a 2nd family with it- in the process of doing research on it, I'm now a proud member of the Northern Ireland Veterans Association...these squaddies are the best! Treat me like one of their own- they know I'm insane as I have a Pig!

 

Both petrol tanks had unleaded fuel left in them- it turned to paint thinner. The Right tank I've pulled- haven't gotten to cleaning it yet. Of course while underneath, I found the brake master cylinder is shot, numerous leaks from the tracta-joints (but probably due to lack of usage.) but found grease pencil markings on the floorplates- still visible!

 

I've hooked up with the REME Past & Present who have provided a bunch of input on cleaning the tanks- phosporic acid is recommended. I found some at a marine supply store, that's formulated for fuel tanks. So, I'll give that a shot.

 

The outside was lightly rusted- I applied Rust Bullet ( a rust convertor that you can spray, brush or roll on- I had to brush it on as I don't have access to power) and then painted it with about 24 cans of Rust-Oleum Forest OD Green. Looks to be the right colour- I drove to where I have it stored (outside due to budget) and I had to look for it!

 

As I'm a novice, I welcome any and all help, comments, advice, etc!

 

Doc

[fv1609]

Hello. yes it looks a lott better than when I last saw it. I have posted a few interior shots of a nice one I saw at Kemble in the summer it is on http://www.warwheels.net/HumberPigSquirtElliott.html

but you may have already found it.

 

So did you come here via my "bait" on the Yahoo Humber page?

 

I had a look at a piece you did for an Australian site, the colour looks ok given that even the real stuff is subject to quite a lot of change with sun & rain etc. At least with Rustoleum it will stay that colour.

 

So what finishes are available in Rustoleum. Is yours dead matt or satin. I ask because my RUC pig was painted in "Rustoleom green" in 1969 & I have been trying to find what type of green. All this was stripped back once the army got it & it was DBG then NATO green. But my RUC Shorland was also the same colour deep down & I have managed to rip off 4in square of army paint without damaging the underneath stuff to reveal crisp new satin? rustoleum green.

 

How many greens do Rustoleum do in what I take to be satin finish, so I can narrow down my guesses?

[Doc MacKinnon]

Yes, I took your bait...thanks!

 

It was very difficult finding a proper green as I really didn't have any good pics to go by. Now this one? BE STILL MY BEATING HEART!!! The concentrate tank is there, as well as the Godiva.

 

It even shows the nozzle in the EARP barrel! And I really like the paint job. Also the detail of the front visor glass is very helpful.

 

As for mine- I need to get it ready for winter. I have one small tarp over the front visors, need to get a couple of larger ones for the entire swine.

Any ideas on what else I need to do?

[commander]

I went to look at an "Armoured Car" last night and when I got there

it was a pig , now don't ask me why because I always said that

I would never buy one but by the time I left, guess who was the

proud owner of a pig what is it about them is it because they look

so ugly and unloved you have to take pity on them or what. .My better

half couldn't believe me when I got back home , she reakons I'm still

not recovered from the car crash I was in 2 weeks ago, am I a changed man I ask, can I claim for mental instability and site this as evidance,

a trip to see the councillor is on the cards I think, am I rambling GOD

the pigs influence is affecting me already, got to go the nice men are at the door , there coming to take me away ha ha he he

Commander or is it

[fv1609]

Well done, its down hill for you from now on! So what is it Mk 1 or Mk 2, what is its military reg? Then I can give you some history.

[commander]

So how do I tell what it is , my knowledge of pigs ammounts to zilch

I assume there must be a plate or something somewhere any

help appreciated ,ie what they will run on diet etccc

Commander

[fv1609]

Can you post a picture of it?

 

There are two data plates:

 

1. Put your head between the nearside wheel & the front wing. In front of you will be a chassis plate giving the serial number, model, & military registration. The registration will be **BK**. The four numbers that make this up are the same as the last four numbers of the five digit serial number.

 

2. The body plate is smaller & is on the passenger side below the front window. It will have a S serial number indicating a Sanky body or ROF indicatinfg Royal Ordnance Factories. Often the Mk bit has not been stamped. But even if it says Mk2 it may still be a Mk 1 in the excepted sense.

 

Because the real Mk 1 is the FV1609. The production vehicle FV1611 & FV1612 (& later FV1613) which we all know as Mk 1, is really the Mk 2. Unforunately the Army forgot this when the uparmoured most of the pigs in 1973. They should have called them Mk 3, but they didn't & called them Mk 2. (It was a bit like Series 1 Land Rovers & then the Army calling the Series 2a lightweight the Rover Mk 1)

 

So look at the rear doors. Are they just in two pieces or is there a horizontal flap on the top with a thick vision block? If it has this fap it is a Mk 2.

 

The windscreens do they have flaps with a slot for a No 17 Periscope ( as in Mk1) or thick vision blocks that are so heavy they are raised by hydraulic rams (as in Mk 2) those are the most obvious clues.

 

Other features which will NOT define the Mk which often get stated that they do: Barrackade ram, double servo, birfield joints, front wings supports diagonal of straight, cutaway rear lockers. Any of these could be found on either model.

 

Unless you have seen it driven recently using both fuel tanks, I would drain the fuel & chuck it away. Fill with fresh (should be ok on unleaded RR say) fuel. Disconnect the banjo at the carb & prime through until you get fresh fuel. I had one tank with old fuel, it ran so badly that it shattered an exhaust valve tappet, so that was a sod to sort odd.

[paul connor]

i also had the same prob with 30 bk 43 (mk 1 flying)

 

the tanks had gummed up with old fuel and the pipes had sealed shut!

 

i think i did an unorthadox fix, but it has worked! i removed the tank, and the sender unit and drain plug.

 

from there i rammed a karcher steam cleaner running parafin and water mix into all the places i could and blasted away! until tank and all pipes were clear!

 

now i know water and fuel and tanks aint a good idea! but i was stuck!.

 

well after this i over filled time and time again with clean parafin , then finally with fresh fuel and well. 18months later, both tanks run and no corrosion.

 

not the route some may take but it did work and i have had no probs since

 

"So look at the rear doors. Are they just in two pieces or is there a horizontal flap on the top with a thick vision block? If it has this fap it is a Mk 2. " quoted clive

 

i have 2 flaps as well as 2 flip down windows as well as 2 doors? hehe

what does this mean? is my pig special?

 

 

paul

[fv1609]

Pauls pig is very special as it is the only known Mk 1 that is a flying pig ie having fold out screens each side & on the roof. I first saw it in an ordnance dealers yard 15+ years ago.

 

His rear doors each have about of the top 7inches fold down. You can see evidence that there were two rows of seats one behind the other, that go from side to side ie the troops faced backwards. This is revealed by the old weld marks where RSJ was fitted. Debussing would have been difficult. Presumably why it was discontinued.

 

My other pig 28 BK 08 had the same weld marks & the drop down flaps on each rear door. But on mine the flaps have been welded up to return it to normal "Mk 1" appearance.

 

Both our pigs had barracade rams characteristics people would say of a Mk2. But even not all Mk2s had rams.

 

This mods are characteristic of NI mods early 1970s. My pig & Pauls were part of the batch of 200 repurchased from scrapyards by MOD in 1972. They were pushed into service so the rest of the fleet could be uparmoured in 1973. So that would date the mods to 1972-73.

[commander]

Well got the pig going today must say the engine sounds fine runs like a watch ,

the only problem I have encountered is there is a horrible dronning coming from the back end, the log book says first reg 1953 chassis no 21383 found 13 BK 83 inside looks like it has got the extra armour added

what a bugger to get in and out of deffinitly for the slender type to hop in and out off why oh why did I secume to it's ungainly beauty

Commander

[fv1609]

13 BK 83 entered service as a FV1601 GS truck on 16/12/53, which was also its stated date of manufacture. The original engine fitted was serial no. 6646.

 

It would be have been made into a FV1613 in 1958-59. Note that this is quite rare not a FV1611 (APC) nor FV1612 (FFW) but a FV1613 which was an ambulance. It was later converted into a FV1611 for NI & then uparmoured to a Mk2 in 1973.

 

The droning noise, is that all the time or when you drive along? Is it continuous or more of a knock/thud? Does it actually work in 4WD when the 4WD lever is down or are you just being driven along on the front wheels or put it another way with the 4WD lever up does it move?

 

Can we have some pics?

[commander]

Thanks for the update on the Pig ref the 4wd which lever is this one, the noise comes when you drive it , I must admit this is my first rh drive Brit mil vehicle since I bought a champ in 1966 , since than I have been US only apart from my Nortons , will post some pictures tomorrow

Commander

[commander]

Heres a picture of the PIG took some others but left the cover dangling in front of the lens DOHHHH

Commander

[fv1609]

I think you still have the lens cover on, no picture visible here.

[Doc MacKinnon]

As the weather here is very strange- 70F one day, 40F the next...thday we had snow and freezing rain...this weekend it may well be in the high 40s to the low 50s...

 

With this in mind, I decided to take apart the EARP barrel set-up. The nylon cover was a bit of a pain to remove as it is very fragile- but I was able to remove it with minimal problem and damage. So now I can see about making a new one. Of course the metal ring that keeps the cover attached to the face plate had to be removed- all screws came out nicely!

 

Each barrel is in it's own gimbal mount, and on the lower aspect of the muzzle (actually about a 1/2 inch from the muzzle, a threaded stud is welded in place, and a steel bar then allows the barrels to be trained laterally as a unit. Ideally, where one points, the other three point.

 

Luckily, I have a plastic egg holder that is perfect for keeping the screws, nuts and the like in place where they can't be lost. Very important for these small screws.

 

The lexan window is held in place by about 8 slotted machine screws- I have 3 that won't budge! I'm going to try gently heating the back with a propane torch to try and loosen them. I'll let you know how this works.

 

My goal is to obtain 4 surplus Czech 26.5mm flare guns, adapt them to fit the EARP breeches, and then use 12 gauge chamber sleeves so I can fire signal blanks from the EARPs. One of my friends suggested making the Squirt work, and hose the crowds at St. Pat's parades with green beer.

As I have both water tanks, and hose fittings that idea did seem like fun...

but I'm too cheap to buy even green beer for anyone...

[fv1609]

Yes the guns all sound good fun. But your pig had specific roles but at different times. The EARPs were fited to 123 pigs in the period 1973-74. The Pig Squirts were modifications carried out from May to Dec 1975. There were meant to be 36 Pig Squirts (but I can only document the histories of 22). So it was either fitted out to EARP or Squirt, but not at the same time. Depicting the two roles simultaneously, would look a bit strange. Sorry to be a spoil sport. :wink:

[Doc MacKinnon]

Well, I struck a blow for those who own British Steel!

 

For those of you who belong to the MVPA, in the Jan 2006 ARMY MOTORS, my Humber Pig is featured on page 23. As well as a couple of pokes in the eye with the following sharp sticks:

- "Maybe I am still too new, but Army Motors seems to focus on US vehicles and the rest of us with unique vehicles are orphaned."

- "I realize the MVPA primarily serves US vehicles with the occasional

'pretty' Ferret. Sorry, but the Pig is nota pretty 'parade' vehicle..."

 

Yep! Some may think I'm trying to stir up trouble! What I'm trying to do is stir up support and interest in NMIA (Not Made In America) vehicles. Oh- a special thanks to Clive Elliot for his pic of mine taking a squirt...it's featured as the banner on the top of the page.

 

And any "DMV" expert who swears a Pig is an Armoured Combat Vehicle...

needs to talk to those who drove & rode in them. Heat came from the transmission...and lots of it. The best way to experience a patrol ina Pig is- according to my mate "Trackie" of the Northern Ireland Veterans' Association is:

Once you've locked yourself inside, do the following:

1- Have 20 of your mates pound on the outside with sledge hammers.

2- Have 50 of their friends throw firebombs, rocks, acid bottles, bricks, paint, flaming bags of excrement(human, dog, the nastiest- the better!), flour, dirt, at the vehicle

3- Have some friends with guns take pot shots at the vehicle.

4- Stay inside for about 4 to 6 hours during the above. Then once you get outside, singe the bottoms of your pants legs and set fire to your boot laces.

Then you are an Official Veteran Pig Squaddie. 8)

 

Rich

[Doc MacKinnon]

Well, my experiment worked...at least from what I can tell.

 

I used a gallon of Zep Shower, Tub & Tile cleaner, as it contains phos[phoroc acid- as recommended by my REME contacts. I also added some Naval Jelly to give it a kick.

 

First I tested the Right Tank Fuel strainer- the cleaner of the two. Turned out great- I can see clearly thru the fine brass mesh, and it looks pretty darn good. Then I did the Left strainer. This one is ugly! Had caked on black, slimy crud, with gobs of sediment in the base of the strainer, and huge areas of rust in the layers of the brass mesh. I used the solution, let it soak for 10 minutes, with careful and gentle application of a brass gun cleaning brush. It took 2 soakings to get the bottom clean to where you can see thru it- however, the brass mesh on this one appears to be in 2 layers- the outer layer has small spots where the mesh is ripped away.

And it still has alor of rust deposits in it. But water now runs clear thru it.

I'll probably have to fabricate a new one...unless someone can guide me to a replacement.

 

Now to the Right petrol tank. I let this "witches brew" soak for about 4 hours, with shifting of the tank on it's side, then bottom, then other side.

I drained it, and the inner base looks 100% better. Still some crud on the sides of the baffle plates...

 

My next project is to re-hang the tank..after I repair the fuel line where the fitting to the banjo bolt broke off. I think I can braze/solder it on and then attach it to the banjo fitting when I reinstall the tank. However, the EMERS doesn't quite say how to hook the sending unit back up...

 

Rich

[Doc MacKinnon]

Been a while since I've heard anything from the Pig Sty. So, allow me to explain why I'm chuffed.

 

While enjoying a day off, as well as decent weather, I decided to remove my left front seat frame and the battery boxes so I can clean all the nasty powdery crud and filth that is in them. And figure out what to do with that

funny pipe that has a large valve fitting which attaches it to the hose that went to the Godiva.

 

When I bought the Sgt Major, the previous owner (nice chap- but wobbly in the head...) said he was going to cut the pipe out and use the Pig as a hunting truck. Yep...quite wobbly in the head....

 

When I got the battery boxes out I looked at this "pipe"...and was wondering why it looked so familiar....it looks just like an EARP barrel.

 

Then it hit me like an Ulster Round! (Yep- I know what that is...I have one...as well as the hard predecessor.) IT IS AN EARP BARREL! It has a flange welded to the side and to the muzzle that attches it to the right side of the seat frame. And it stops about 1/2 inch above the floor plate.

 

I looked closer at the valve assembly. A few weeks ago, I broke a pipe wrench trying to disconnect the hose from the valve. Now I see a half-moon shaped device, that is spring loaded. After playing with it, I learned it was the locking device for this assembly into the EARP barrel.

 

So...I released it, and gave the entire unit a firm twist counter-clockwise.

And had to gently tap it upwards with a hammer....

 

IT IS THE SQUIRT "STINGER" NOZZLE! Dirty, some marks where some "expert" tried a pipe wrench midway up the shaft of the "Stinger", but the "o"-ring is intact and pliable....

 

I'll post pics shortly! As WarWheels.Net has a Squirt Pig in their gallery, but doesn't really show the actual nozzle assembly...just the muzzle seen in the far left EARP barrel. With the locking mechanism that secures this unit either in the "EARP Holster" or the EARP barrels when in the left visor

position, I maintain the Squirt could very well have been used in conjuction with the EARP barrels...in delivering "hard" or "soft" deterrents

to riot participants. (I'll check with my RUC/PSNI/UDR squaddies on their input from their memories)

 

(Clive- I'll also put these on the FV-1600 Yahoo Group.)

 

Now...to make the "Squirt" functioning...with emphasis on "Fun", I plan on buying a "trash pump"- a simple petrol-powered pump that is used for removing large amounts of water from basements, pools, ponds, etc. These run about $200.00 USD, have large-bore fittings, and should be fairly easy to adapt.

[Doc MacKinnon]

A 14,000 pound Pig with EARPS & SQUIRTS....not something to be around!

 

One of my NIVA mates gave me his viewppoint of this question:

 

"I wouldn't know.... we never used the "Squirt system"........but I did fire loads of "baton rounds".......and I was pretty good at it too............we discovered that if we bounced the rounds just in frount of the "mob" it was very affective......but then when the "petrol bombs" started to be thrown,..... thats when it started to get kinda weird....we knew we had to always watch out for the "snipers" but never once did we ever think we had to carry fire extinguishers.......we had to steal them from the vehicles, but after a while we ran out of them.....(they were only small hand held green ones, only good for one go).......we then had to use feet and hands.......very scary..........believe it or not, later on there was talk of warming the water so that the "mob" wouldn't get too cold if the "Squirt" was used........... (this is very true)......but I dont know if it was ever done........ sorry I couldn't be more help............ take care Frankie"

 

Of course, with both at my disposal...I'd be firing all four barrels....3 for solids and 1 for liquid.... And using anything I could get my hands on...

 

Now- speaking of those lovely green fire extinguishers...I still have one that is intact, and never used. Any idea where I can find a couple more for the racks inside? I'm already planning to mount a modern one.

 

Also, some of the mounting points inside have me wondering what went there? Inside the left front door, and along the rear of the seat is a mounting bracket for a shovel or something with a triangular end, and a wire securing device at the top. As well as other items of the CES for MkII Pigs. Verbal descriptions are nice, pics are even better.

 

Any help can be left on the forum, or emailed to me.

 

Doc MacKinnon

[fv1609]

Can you describe on this pic where you mean?

 

 

The Halon fire extinguishers 6BCF/4210-99-826-6758 & 6BCF/4210-99-881-5099 are banned under the Montreal Protocol to restrict certain ozone depleting chemicals. In the UK at least it is illegal to use them & now illegal to posses them. The implementation of this in the Army is in AESP 0200-A-194-013.

 

As far as warm water goes. Currently the six Somatu RCV9000 Belgian-made water cannon in service with PSNI, have computersised controls ensuring that the water is heated to 3-5 degrees centigrade. This is to avoid any injuries to the crowd due to hypothermia. Operators have been warned not to knock rioters off their balance as this could also cause injury. :?

[Doc MacKinnon]

What have you done, you wonderful wealth of knowledge?

 

Fantastic pics! Shows where some of the older foam fell off and was replaced with the sections of black foam. I have to scrape all mine off and start fresh. Luckily there are new adhesives that can hold a battleship to a pier. As for the hand straps, I don't have those.

 

I really appreciate the colour scheme, so I know what items to paint red when I get to that point. Now, my water tank holding straps are all silver colour, and I don't have the concentrate tank. I may call and see what else may still be around the previous owner's garage, but as his wife sued him for divorce and that property was in the settlement, I think we picked up all that appeared to be Pig related. Everything else was for the Chieftain tank he had in his garage...with the jammed right drive system.

 

Your help prior to my acquiring "His Porcine Lardship" was put to great use...he had know idea I knew more about it than he did...and he had it for about 5 years.

 

I've been in contact with Roy Elvis at Champ Spares regarding the master cylinder rebuild kit. I haven't even pulled the old one off yet...it's one thing I plan to do this week. Hopefully it can be rebuilt- I'm not thrilled at looking at 235 GBP for a complete one. And then...removing each wheel for the brake shoes....at least I have a 20 ton hydraulic jack...I may well leave this to a professional shop. I found a truck repair place not far from me that has a couple of ex-miltary nmechanics who aren't afraid of split-rim wheels and tracta-joints. And would probably be very reasonable in getting some advertising!

 

I'll have to take some pics of the areas that I mean.

 

Thanks again Clive!

 

Now..if I can only track down a visor block assembly for the side or rear upper hatch...and a glass block unit for one of the forward visors...[/code]

[fv1609]

I'm not thrilled at looking at 235 GBP for a complete one.

 

 

I should think not! £50 or max £60 is the going rate for a NOS one over here at a show. So watch out :roll:

[Doc MacKinnon]

It can off the frame plate without a problem...only one nut holding it on.

 

I cleaned it up today, and found the inside very clean..with a bit crud on the bottom that was easily removed with a screwdriver. The snap-ring holding the cup plate in was removed with no difficulty, after I cleaned off the old rust and junk with a burr bit on a Dremel moto-tool. Couldn't get the cup out, but the spring and the cup work very well, and appar to have a good pumping action.

 

I may not need a rebuild kit after all.

 

My game plan is to rehang the M/C tomorrow, fill it with some fresh silicon brake fluid, and of course, clean off the rod and pedal linkage.

And re-install the boot., using a ring-clamp to hold it on.

 

Seems this beastie needs more TLC....no wonder the brakes didn't work...

But we shall see what happens...

 

And I found the missing "end" to my petrol line. I'm going to solder it to a section of soft copper tubing- then when I re-attach the banjo-bolt to the tank, I can bend the tubing without fear of breaking it.

 

R/M

[abn deuce]

Found this on Doug's heavy metal gallery about Squirt Pigs .

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/humb002.html