simon in a 432 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hi I'm looking to road register a 432. I've allready had some great help from Chris (sirhc). Just a couple of quick questions- Is there anyway of finding out the powerpack/engine number without removing the powerpack? (mk 2 diesel) Also with regard to the number of seats - what number needs to go on the V55 form? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/RB5SRULE/DSCF0226.jpg[/img] Does anyone know what the 24A means and which unit it might have come from? Thanks. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Simon, The power pack number is on a tag on the side of the pack frame. If you remove the 2 cover plates by the side of the driver (they're 9/16 AF quick release connectors) you'll be able to see it. Number of seats, you decide! If you put down 3 and the police stop you with 5 people in it, what will they say? 24A is a tac sign, it depends who used it last. In the REME LAD 24A is an artificers vehicle. To find out who it served with you'll need the history card and a copy of the entry from the MoD computer. Try this address: ES (Land) Cencus Team Chetwynd Barracks Chilwell Nottingham NG9 5HA Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Under the old callsign system of Signals Communications for the Army (which I believe started about 1956 and was replaced ISTR 1 July 1982, just after I transferred out) 24A id derived like this (as a Royal Armoured Corps Control Signaller, I automatically think RAC subunits; 432 being primarily an infantry vehicle, I include Infantry nomenclature for completeness): 2 = B Squadron (Company) 4 = 4 Troop (Platoon A = second vehicle in subunit. Troop/Platoon commander = 24, 24A = Troop/Platoon Sergeant. In the pic, the callsign is surrounded by what ought to be a square (to indicate B Sqn/Coy) but to my eye the bottom edge doesn't look square. A Sqn = triangle, C Sqn = circle, HQ Sqn = diamond. The Germans learned to make battlegroups during WW2. The Allies were getting the hand by the end of the war. It worked like this. In action, break up units (regiments and battalions) into squadrons and companies, mix them up and put them back together as a mixed arm unit, a battlegroup instead of a regiment / batallion, based upon one of the RHQs. Thus 15/19H battlegroup might consist of B Sqn 15/19H (Recce), B Coy 1LI (Mechanised Infantry) and B Sqn 3RTR (Tanks) answering to RHQ 15/19H. As far as major units go, you would certainly expect to see either two RAC or two Infantry Sqns/Coys in any battlegroup. The above isn't typical because Recce were Divisional Troops and not normally assigned to battlegroups, but this demonstrates the flexibility of the system. But this didn't stop RHQ 15/19H from commadning a battlegroup. Divisions were structured 1 * Recce Regt, 2 * Armour Regt, 3 * Infantry Bn, giving six RHQs upon which to base battlegroups and giving each battlegroup an average of three combat units, but it was entirely down to the Divisional GOC how he split up the battlegroup for the task in hand. If you look closely, you'll notice that this battlegroup has no A Sqn/Coy: they are all B Sqn/Coy. To differentiate them, callsigns were prefixed with an arm indicator where: I = Infantry K = Infantry alternate T = RAC U = RAC alternate G = Artillery W = Artillery alternate E = Engineers F = Engineers alternate A = AAC ... followed by remaining arm indicators in alphabetical order. So in out example, B Sqn 15/19H would prefix all callsigns with Tango and the vehicle in question became Tango 24 Alpha. The same vehicle in B Sqn 3RTR would use the Armour alternate indicator, Uniform and would answer up as Uniform 24 Alpha. The same vehicle in B Coy 1LI would answer up as India 24 Alpha. And so on. And the sequence given above for arm indicators is the sequence they would answer up on the command net. All India callsigns first from I2 (FHQ command vehicles, Alpha and Bravo) through I21 to I24C, their support platoon (applicable to arm), REME and HQ element. Then would answer up all the Tangos then the Uniforms. There would also probably be an Artillery FOO, typically Golf 11, some engineers for the reserve demolition and so it went on. Naturally, you would know from one battlegroup grouping to the next whether you might be Tango or Uniform, India or Kilo, so that wasn't a permanent fixture of the callsign. In fact, in our regiment, 15/19H, callsigns were mounted on sheet metal plates attached to the rear turret stowage bin, only visible from the rear and easily changed if the Troop Leader's vehicle broke down and he took over command of say 24C. I could write a book about it, but I think that's enough for now. Roger so far over? Note that this system was identified as full of security holes a lo-o-ong time ago and this is why it was replaced with a totally different, more secure system in 1982. I have read books which suggest the system I have described was not dissimilar from what was used in WW2, except that in WW2, instead of having the B Sqn indicator carved in stone, this changed on a daily basis so that T24A as well as having a "floating" first letter, also had a floating second letter, and might be for example GM4A (sorry cannot remember the pre-NATO phonetic alphabet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon in a 432 Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thanks for the reply The power pack number is on a tag on the side of the pack frame. If you remove the 2 cover plates by the side of the driver (they're 9/16 AF quick release connectors) you'll be able to see it. We've had the piano boards off in the past but never seen a number. How long is the number and is it just one for the powerpack or does the engine have its own number? Number of seats, you decide! If you put down 3 and the police stop you with 5 people in it, what will they say? I was thinking that 1 driver, 1 commander and 6 passengers would be the most you would want in one but didn't know if it would be classed as another type of vehicle (with a different licence required) if it had more than a certain number of seats. thanks AlienFTM always wondered what it was but everone I'd asked didn't know :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Don't put down more than 9 seats (including driver) or you need a PSV licence. I'd put the maximum possible in case your friends want a ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Simon, If I remember correctly the pack number was down on the frame near the gearbox, but it was a while ago and I don't have a 432 to go and check anymore! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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