robin craig Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 As you may know my partner Jan and I own a Canadian Ferret. I am preparing to work on it. It will have to roll in and out of the workshop at work during out of work hours as I can not tie up the space. While we are an active farming operation and have many pieces of heavy equipment on site in the collection that I manage we are actually located over two locations separated by 7 kilometers, so the availability of a particular tractor or other machinery is not always right at hand and to get it is at least a 14 kms round trip. Winter is coming and salt will be on the roads and hence we dont drive some kit in the winter to reduce salt damage. That being understood, and my desire to be fiercely independent when it comes to my own kit vs work kit you will understand how I want to be able to move the Ferret firstly from one location to the other and then in and out of the shop on my own with the truck that I drive which is a Dodge Ram 1ton with 4wd and well capable of pulling 4 tons. We have a set of Holleybone bars (A bars by another name) with which I have become all too familiar with and know that if used correctly are safe and good for a single person operation. As there is no provision to mate said A bars to a Ferret I have set about making that possible, but bearing in mind that the condition of "no new holes, nothing welded on" must be satisfied. I am not into fancy intricate fabrication with milling machines and perfectly shaped pieces, just lots of good old "rough engineering made easy" with quick and dirty welding and cutting of on hand materials but done in a way that is solid and safe. Pictured below is a picture of the first part which is an angle 4" X 3" with some clips welded on and some suitable steel tube that allows the pins to attach. This is the start of the simple fabrication what will allow me to move either Ferret (the second one is being traded) at will on my own at slow speeds. The piece of beam underneath is nothing to do with the A bar Hope you enjoy this Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 remember transfer box in neutral and gearbox,and tow at no more than 20 mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m109a3uk Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I would move it on a trailer to save all the hassle. I was going to say about the 20mph towing speed you could lose the props from inside (depending on how far a resto your going for!!) The bracket you have made up could it be attached to the hull via the recovery/lashing eyes on the lower front? I guess some sort of clamp arrangment but would have to be strong(forces when turning can be very high) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Dear All and Tony and Griff, Thanks for your input. Yes there are tremendous forces involved and it is being designed and fabricated to deal with those. The fabrication point is 7 kilometers from the Ferret. I agree, a trailer with a winch would be grand, our work trailers are bigger and are deck over wheels not between wheels. If you re-read the preamble / definition of the project, I want to be independent with the kit I can count on being around. I was hoping and planning to do more today but was ensnarled with my daughters car and it's own sad tale of woe. Bank of Dad here we go again . . . . R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Robin, Just a word of caution to you from years of Expeirience of in Service work on Ferrets. The usual issue ces kit as you know, was a Bowden cable & chain towing 'strop', as we called them. There were really fir use in an Emergency & Towing SHORT distances aroung camp. For example, getting a Dead vehicle up to the Unit L.A.D (Workshops) for attention/ repair. The obvious attachment points for this cable assembly was the hull Loops at the front & rear on either side of the Hull. HOWEVER! Caution MUST be exercised here, as these loops were originally intended for lashing purposes for tranist. On either Trailers, Truck, Railway falat cars, Parachute deployment on stressed platforms Etc Etc. If the vehicle is Jerked enough times through bad driving/ Difficult Terrain/ Transmission Problems. Then is is actually quite easy to tear away a loop form the hull on one side of the loop! I have seen this Damage many times, & it is a lot of work for the metalsmith to heat up the loop & push it back intoposition & weld back to the hull again! A good example of potential damage is when a vehicle has sat for a few years in Post Military Service & the brakes seized on! The BEST place to for a Tow Point attachment if the TOP loops on the susspension Brackets. This is the strongest point, & can be seen to be the case when a Four legged sling is used at each loop to lift the complete vehicle off the ground. Original Holibones have a swinging bracket at each end of the legs as issued. I would say it would be quite easy to make a 'Spacer' that would fit on the inside of the the top lifting loops to closely fit inside these. The slide the Holibones end section 'Wishbone' section on either side & fit the bolt & castleated nut & split pin. The idea is identical to the round spacer when used on 432 series hull towing brackets. That should give you a GOOD idea of how they work. I Hope this helps you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Dear Ferret Fixer, Thank you for your words of advice. I am well aware of the weakness of the tie down loops at the front lower corners. In fact the second Ferret, the one that is being traded has already had one of those broken, rewelded, and broken off again, so at the moment it is non existant. The design I am messing with, will make the point of attachment very secure. I have looked at the upper loops and am not comfortable making a set of spacers as you describe. I realy feel that those loops are not for exerting such large pressures on. For me living out here they look like that are made of "unobtainium" so I am reluctant to deface one or both of them. They may become part of the attachment points but it is where the forces get applied during the towing and shunting that concerns me. I want to make the point of attachment to the bars as far forward as I can get. Experience with wheeled vehicles thus far and A bars is the further forward they go the easier they follow. In my sleep last night I made the ironmongery twice over, so I will go in to work today on my holidays and see if I can convert REM sleep into some hardware. I am creeping up on the subject and by cunning and by guille I will hopefully succeed in catching the monkey! I am fully prepared to expose myself to the forum and be proven wrong on what I am attempting. For me this forum is such a brilliant way of bouncing ideas around and sharing the knowledge and the fun. Please don't stop giving me input. Regards Robin Edited September 22, 2011 by robin craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Well, I did have a few distractions today but did make good progress. Here is what the finished Mk 1 version looks like prior to being used. I did end up using the top loops as per Mr Ferretfixers comments but not as he described. I found that heavy wall 1 1/2" square tubing with a heavy wall fitted so snug into them. I made up a heavy angle and made an end plate with a hole in it to allow a securing bolt to pass through it. The reason for this is that I wanted the end plates to be able to stop against the loops on either side if there was latteral movement. I could have opted for unbolting the loops but chose not to, so the ends had to bolt on. I made angle clips to go over the sides of the front and they were welded on an angle to match the profile of how the front armour tapers. The large angle with the mounting points for the A bars had to be secured for both pulling and decleration when the ferret would want to push. I made the front clips that are secured by bolts with tabs on the inside so that they grip under the overhanging armour front plate. This holds the frame when the ferret pushes going down hill. The ratcheting binders allow infinite adjustment to the pressure but I had to deal with the interferance of them being in the same plane, so opted for a couple of wood blocks to sort that. I cant remember at what point this shot was taken but i'm thinking that things had to be adjusted a bit and re tightened. A coat of primer sure tidied things up nicely R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Things were checked over and transfer case and gear box in neutral and hooked up ready to roll. I called in trusted friend Charlie to drive my truck while I rode cowboy style in the bed of the truck watching how things reacted or moved. You will notice that the Ferret has been dry stored in an agricultural building and that is one of the reasons it had to move as we need the space quite apart from the fact I want to work on it. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Even though the brakes had been left off they seemed to have stuck a bit and a few forward and backward movements freed them up, so it may have just been rusty drums. The trip was made at 15 kmh with comments being made through the back window by me. We set off in daylight but typical with this kind of year the light fades almost instantly and we did the rest of the trip in the dark. Contrary to myth, one can back a wheeled vehicle on an A bar but you have to know what you are doing. A steersman has to steer the dead vehicle and give direction to the pushing vehicle so that it follows and does not get all snarled up. Clear communication is required. Here is the frame in the shop at the end of the journey of 7 kilometers, some shifting did take place so a revised Mk 2 improved version will be in play when I move the other one on my own tommorow. I do have to say I'm well chuffed that it worked and worked so well. On reflection I would say that my spidey senses about the lifting points were sound as the angle downward would be quite severe and the loops are rear of the sloped surface and the A bars may have fouled the angle change and also the headlights are in the way. Robin Edited September 23, 2011 by robin craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 looks good, quite a piece of engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Well done Robin, that looks quite substantial! Yes, a VERY important consideration. Clearance between the headlights! Replacing a pair of thos would be extremely expensive! The setup you manufactured is absoultely ideal for your neck of the woods. remote & out on lonely roads, you cant afford for anything to go wrong when out on your own! Superb item of recovery equipment that can utilised again & again without modification the the actual Holibones! good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Thanks for the compliments gents. I do have a tendency to build to a "bullet proof" spec when making such items. It really is not any more work and makes for a reliable piece of kit. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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