Scammell4199 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Can anyone help me with the wiring diagram for a Scammell Pioneer, i've attached a scan from the manual below. I have a reasonable understanding of electrics but i can't fathom out the headlight circuit. From what i can see there is a feed from the left most terminal on the control board to a group of connected terminals on the fusebox, from there a feed runs upto the instrument panel, from which the headlights are switched on, go through one of the fuses in the fuse box and onto the headlights. This is where it gets tricky, the return from the headlights runs back to the group of terminals on the fusebox where the feed from the control board comes in. Surely this isn't right? The sidelights and tail lights make perfect sense, because they go to ground and are picked up by a ground on the fusebox that runs back to the negative terminal on the battery. Comments anyone? Cheers, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Can anyone help me with the wiring diagram for a Scammell Pioneer, i've attached a scan from the manual below.I have a reasonable understanding of electrics but i can't fathom out the headlight circuit. From what i can see there is a feed from the left most terminal on the control board to a group of connected terminals on the fusebox, from there a feed runs upto the instrument panel, from which the headlights are switched on, go through one of the fuses in the fuse box and onto the headlights. This is where it gets tricky, the return from the headlights runs back to the group of terminals on the fusebox where the feed from the control board comes in. Surely this isn't right? The sidelights and tail lights make perfect sense, because they go to ground and are picked up by a ground on the fusebox that runs back to the negative terminal on the battery. Comments anyone? Cheers, Richard Hi Richard ,is the Pioneer fitted with main and dip beam headlamps ? If yes , they seem to have omitted the switch from the diagram ! Only a theory not based on any factual knowledge I'm afraid ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Andy, No, just on and off. Also i've just realised the circuit for the instrument panel lights and inspection lamp sockets is a bit peculiar. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Batchelor Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Havent looked at the diagram yet but dont forget its 12v lighting and 24v starting. None of the elcetrics are grounded through the chassis (well not on the matador anyway) and they are split between the two batteries some being on one circuit, some on another! Will see if my manuals have anything further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 yeah i know that, and reminding me of it and looking at the diagram again the more i find that doesn't make sense, grrrrr Gonna look at the Matadors wiring diagram as a comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philb Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 For what it's worth Richard, you're dead right. the feeds and returns all go to +24V, the chassis being the reference, -ve. The technical author must have been on something stronger than tea that afternoon. Don't try to work it out from the Matador, it has 12V lights (normally) whereas the Pioneer seems to have 24v lights and 12V for the wiper and horn only. I think the headlamp and panel lamp returns need to go to the lower bus-bar in the fusebox (chassis). How are you getting on with the bottom end? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Hi Richard. PM sent. Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Batchelor Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 For what it's worth Richard, you're dead right. the feeds and returns all go to +24V, the chassis being the reference, -ve. The technical author must have been on something stronger than tea that afternoon. Don't try to work it out from the Matador, it has 12V lights (normally) whereas the Pioneer seems to have 24v lights and 12V for the wiper and horn only. I think the headlamp and panel lamp returns need to go to the lower bus-bar in the fusebox (chassis). How are you getting on with the bottom end? Phil Pioneer should be 12V lighting and 24V starting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protruck Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Hi Richard. Hope the scans are ok. if not, give me a shout and i will do them again. Regards Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Thanks for the scans Clive, they make alot more sense. Yes Ed it should be 12v lighting, clearly not what it shows on the diagram though, like Phil said the bloke who drew it must have been smoking some of the strong stuff that day. I managed to remove a good chunk of the wiring from the vehicle intact when i dismantled it, so i'll make a drawing of that to compare too. I've also started re-drawing the diagram in AutoCad to how i think it should be, will post it when i'm done. Haven't made a start on the engine yet Phil, just finishing off gearbox and putting back axle back together at the moment. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 I've made good progress re-drawing the diagram today. But, i've noticed something else, theres no brake light circuit or switch, despite the fact that the vehicle is equipped in terms of a point on the brake pedal arm to hook the switch onto and a bracket on the chassis to mount the switch on. So, i'll fit that in on my re-draw along with indicators, which i think is a worthwhile concession to originality for the sake of safety on modern roads. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 As far as indicators go. I've just replaced all mine with LED bulbs and what a diffrence! I've also strapped a twelve LED strip under each front wing wired to the sidelights. Nothing shows but when dark they light the wheels and show the true width of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philb Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well, "pimp my Dodge":-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Well, "pimp my Dodge":-) To true mate! I'd stick a bl**dy lighthouse on the back if I thought it would help. Not that it would when some *** hits a 35 foot long 8 foot wide 14 foot high BRIGHT RED, lit like a Christmas tree, double decker bus in the side. Though the driver was writing down a message he was reciving on his mobile phone at the time. :noyay::nono: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philb Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I fear that the only practical way to avoid such accidents is time travel. Or would that just give rise to the frustration that you knew exactly when you were going to be involved in an accident? More tea.... scratch that, more beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 Just noticed something else. Where most of the battery wiring is drawn in bold, the wires between the starter and slave socket are not. Will rectify this in my re-draw. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnierocker Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just noticed something else. Where most of the battery wiring is drawn in bold, the wires between the starter and slave socket are not. Will rectify this in my re-draw. Richard Richard, Im new on here so hello to you and hello to everyone else. I have just completely rewired one of my pioneers and, as has already been mentioned, the wiring diagram is about as much use as a chocolate watch. If your still having fun with the wiring then this may help. Top terminal posts in fuse box are NOT bridged, they need bridging with heavy copper wire. The diagram shows the headlight earth connected to the 24v feed....ignore this wire it doesnt need it at all. The starter and dynamo are 24v everything else should be 12v. Fuse 1 and 2 are bridged, this is where the headlight feed comes from. Ignore 24v on the back of the light switch, its there for the starter button, not the lights. All earth posts in fuse box are bridged and need connecting to body or chassis. Brake lights were not fitted Indicators were not fitted (trafficator arm for left turn and a very log arm for right turn). If you take a feed from either fuse 1 or 2 and connect to the unused terminal posts in the top of the fuse box, then bridge them so that there is enough lives for brake lights, indicators etc you can run all your auxillary wiring from them. Hope this helps. I may have repeated some facts that others have already said, but the re-wire is still fresh in my mind, so if you have any questions then please ask. Chris PS it really caused a headache trying to wire it up, but now its done and everything works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewrance Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hi I run 2 Pioneers and rewired the lights. Some left the factory without dip switches and convoy lights only so the diagram is wrong for these as well. If you do not have a dip switch fitted, they are a Lucas one with the horn button integrated and mounted on the left had side of the searing column. The wiring either runs up a tube n the side of the steering column or inside the column depending on when they were built. What year is your Pioneer? Good luck Brian C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewrance Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hi Folks Don't know if this helps but both of my Pioneers have been rewired as 24V. One has a CAV alternator fitted and the other has a 24V lucas dynamo fitted. Belived it or not, Butec have taken over the old Lucas Alternator and starter business and still make 24V dynamos and starter motors for Gardner 6LW's. If any of you get chance to go the the Commercial Vehicle show in April at the NEC they are usually there. If you apply online, it is free to go to the Show. As a side, the Scammell Register will be at the show. All the best. Brian C AKA Dewrance.:red: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thanks for the pointers guys. I'm guessing the C in Brian C is Carter? If so you know my dad, Dick Fryer, we usually come see you at the Great Dorset Steam Fair. The dip switch you mention, does that mount on the brass mount that forms part of the hand throttle mounting? Has either of yours got it? Could you post a picture? Chris, thanks for sharing your experiences. In particular the bit about the light switch. I found that part of the diagram most strange and was going to pull it apart to work out its inner workings. I'm some way off working on the wiring, but i'l let you all know how i get on. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels v Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Hi Richard its not the best picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 Morning all, so i'm dragging this thread back up. I've nearly completed re-drawing my wiring diagram as i'm approaching the point where i'll need it. So, first of all what do you all think? I still need to add bulb wattages and wire sizes, i'll need some help with wire sizes. I've done all the lights as 24v and kept 12v just for the horn, windscreen wipers, interior lights and inspection lamp sockets. Secondly, i have this small electrical junction box with bayonet fittings that fits on the bracket for the axle lamp. Does anyone know how this thing is integrated into the wiring? The contacts inside just connect the two sockets together, and the black plastic thing is a blanking plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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