eddy8men Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 hi fella's i came across this site last year and it's this find that rekindled my boyhood interest in afv's.It wasn't so much found as ignored by the locals since it was pushed into the stream to act as reinforcement for the road bridge when it was built in the late 40's ,personally i would have used 16mm rebar and kept the tank for myself but the poles chose to use it that way.it didn't become an issue until a few years back when someone cut the front armour off and took it to the local scrapper to be weighed in ,thankfully the police were called and the armour returned to the tank and there it still sits to the best of my knowledge.i plan on going to poland later this year to look for a sunken russian tank in a lake in northern poland ,while i'm there i'll go to the jagdpanzer and post some pics on the forum.i might even take my jack hammer.:cool2: http://www.odkrywca-online.pl/pokaz_watek.php?id=135430 all the best eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agripper Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Cant think of a better place for it. I would say that the Poles have a better understanding about how they feel about the Germans and there influance on there country I find it fitting that its helping to hold up a bridge rather than destroying ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Wow that's quite a discovery I thought it was only mafia informants that held up bridges :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antony Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Wow that's quite a discoveryI thought it was only mafia informants that held up bridges :cool2: They might be inside the tank!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 I wouldn't stake my life on it, but that looks very similar to the JagPzr IV that was recoverd and restored in Poland over the past five or so years (it is now a runner, driver and the main gun operates), that was burried under a bridge in a waterway too. Seems too similar to be a coincidence, if it isn't the same vehicle then I'm buying a lottery ticket when I get home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 hi alistair as far as i know it's still there outside a town called glady,could you confirm if this is the same one ,no point going to glady if the tanks gone. cheers eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Hi Alistair, I think you may be confusing the StuG 4 rather than this which appears to be a Jagdpanzer 4 l/70(although could be the shorter barreled l/48) however I doubt it was intact when dumped in the ditch, possibly the superstructer or even just the front plate and gun mount, -as there is little evidence in the photo of the front the hull where the final drives and transmission and viewing the relative aspect of the gun this should be above the gun which seems upside down. Most tanks relics from ww2in Poland today will be underwater or the mushroom hunters would have found them. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Yep that was definitely a StuGIV - we have the restoration story in the latest Pathfinder with hopefully some similar sagas from that neck of the woods to follow. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 We need to be sure which afv we are talking about is the bit in the culvert at "glady" (english traslation) a StuG 4 as opposed to a jagdpanzer 4 L/48 -L/70. The StuG 4 I mentioned is the polish web site http://www.odkrywca.pl/galerie.php?nazwa=359 to 362 show the removal of the StuG 4, note the bridge in the background (not a culvert), If you give it some thought it is understandable that tanks afvs etc drown near bridges. In ww2 the bridges would be smaller/lighter often requiring tracked vehicles to ford or risk crossing ice bound water near to the bridge, to save bridges for wheeled and foot movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 thanks for the clarification steve,i've read about the stug recovery before ,it was a really difficult job which involved a river being diverted and a lot of digging about in the mud,but it was worth it ,they even found some of the crews weapons as well as ammunition. inside, the tank had suffered an internal explosion probably done by the crew to prevent it being captured there's a youtube link that makes for interesting viewing. eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Despite being buried for 60 plus years it was still able to be towed !!! true a couple of the links were frozen by rust but impressive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Hi Eddy Yes that was the link I really wanted, more exicted Poles than when my local deli closed and sold off the lard and onions at half price:cheesy: Remarkable what can be done by a government spported museum! eddy8men they even found some of the crews weapons as well as ammunition. inside, the tank had suffered an internal explosion probably done by the crew to prevent it being captured Don't know about it being blown up by it's own crew, as you were "in" you know it would bad enough to report a total loss to the adjudant or CSM but turning up without personal weapons would ensure a CO's award. Looking at the vehicle both in the recovery stage and restoration I see little evidence of it being destroyed by the crew, -P4 variants were easilly destroyed, this one had alot of undamaged ammo in it, added to which looking at the open chassis note the ammo rack behind the driver seat, to the right under the gun mount is another rack and a total of 63 rds around the compartment, on the left side the large metal box behind the seat ammo box is a fuel tank, note the filler pipe to it through the side wall along with another further back supplying a second tank abutting the fire wall. With all the ammo and even petrol in the fighting compartment demolision would result in huge damage, which this tank despite first appearance does not have. I think it was lost in the river either falling through ice, a failed pontoon or drivng into a none existant ford, the damage of the loss of the superstucture could have happened any time subsequently. This loss would explain why personal weapons were still inside, the crew escaping in a hurry to avoid drowning. There is another complete StuG 4 at other Polish museum and the complete superstructure at the Warsaw tank museum. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 27, 2010 Author Share Posted February 27, 2010 you're probably right steve but i seem to remember reading about an explosion somewhere, i can't recall where just that i had read it, but i agree with you that it's unlikely that the ammo wouldn't go up if it were destroyed by the crew. eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Yup, Sorry all, must read these posts more thoroughly next time! As my Chemistry teacher used to say, Alastair would be my best student if it wasn't for his careless mistakes when he is rushing! I won't go and get a lottery ticket then.... :-( Do we know if this is part of the entire vehicle as Steve mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 i think the tank is broken up,like steve said you'd be able to see the final drive and sprockets,but i'd bet a pound to a pinch of salt that the rest of the tank is in there as well,i suppose we'll just have to wait til the bridge is demolished to find out. eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Hi Eddy I would think you are right the Jagdpanzer 4 vomag L/70 at Glady may well have been blown up, while looking for the information on the Poznan museum StuG4 I came across a incident that a Tiger 2 was blown up in a stream in France by a scrap man who was then unable to proceed with his spoils (probably because he was in jail I hope!) the wreckage apart for the small bits got buried over time mostly under a road and culvert (so similar to Glady) but sections of the turret have been recovered. There was also a complete churchill AVRE recovered from beneath a road in France, having been pushed into a shell hole after being knocked out, for many years the turret and mortar could be seen in a culvert. it is now a memorial at Normandy. (bet you want to find one like this Eddy) photos Churchill Avre being recovered and what happens if a Pz4 brews up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agripper Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Do like the look of the stug 3, looks like it was thought through, unlike a lot of teh german assualt guns before it and even some after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 agripper Do like the look of the stug 3, looks like it was thought through, unlike a lot of teh german assualt guns before it and even some after. It evolved rather than being thought out, but wasn't a good design, the gun mount in particular was very poor in keeping splash, or even the weather and dust out, had it been redesigned with a fighting compartment on the lines of Jagdpanzer 4 or Hetzer it would have been better. One thing that was thought out was the commanders cupola in the G and H which was very similar to that in post war German AFVs. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 hi steve i'm not sure but i believe the king tiger from under the road in france is now at kevin wheatcroft's collection,well the back end is anyway and good luck to him i hope he can pull it off ,there's not alot to go at. and yes mate i would like churchill i don't care if i have to dig it out with my bare hands it would be worth it but i'd settle for a jagdpanzer if i had too:cool2: eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Hi Eddy according to Shaddock srviving panzers parts pdf the back end of the King Tiger at Weatcroft was fouind in Germany, I seen reference elsewhere before and I am use it came out of a scrapyard. The French king-tiger is also mentioned in the same pdf. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share Posted February 28, 2010 thanks mate i must be getting my king tigers mixed up ,it's easily done as there's so many about :-D eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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