ACH Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Any helpful hints on removal of the cab? I know there's 6 bolts holding it on and a couple of other bits to disconnect, but I'm not too sure the best way to support it. I'm worried about using a spreader through the doors as this might damage the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 N.O.S. Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I'm worried about using a spreader through the doors as this might damage the roof. I don't know about the RL cab, but a TK cab can be lifted with a spreader through the opened doors. I've seen one constructed from two pieces of suitable material 4"x2" spaced 4" apart (of course whatever you use should have a lifting test certificate....). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ian2b Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Just having a look at an RL manual and it says, Raise the cab, using a flat beam through the door apertures. Do not lift the cab with rope or wire slings otherwise the cab structure may be damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I did mean to say through the open doors. I was just a bit worried about lifting it there as it is a lot of stress on the roof. I don't think anything I make will fail, I have a reputation for over engineering, things tend to get a bit on the heavy side.:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I did mean to say through the open doors. I was just a bit worried about lifting it there as it is a lot of stress on the roof. I don't think anything I make will fail, I have a reputation for over engineering, things tend to get a bit on the heavy side.:cool2: I guessing you are taking the cab off to remove the engine (?), we never did this in workshops, there was a frame that fitted on a 10 ton trolley jack. The bumper, and rad was removed first, the frame fitted under the sump flange on sides of block. This enabled engine and gearbox to come out in one go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 Cheers for your help Ian, that's what I thought but Richard's trolley jack and frame sounds good if the Bedford engine I'm looking at tomorrow turns out to be salvageable, it's only done 30k miles from new but being a cherry picker it's been sitting about idling all the time and is producing rather a lot of white smoke which sounds like un-conbusted diesel. And the starter motor has packed up, we need to tow start it. If I go down the Cummins (DAF 45) route with the Spicer 5 speed box the cab has got to come off. If I'm going to fit it it's got to look like it belongs there so I've got to do it properly. Richard do you have any pictures or drawings of this frame, so I could knock one up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Richard do you have any pictures or drawings of this frame, so I could knock one up? Here is a photo of the frame in use from the Bedford S type (4x2) manual, although looking at it, the sump is a "deep well" type used on the 4x4, so must be an RL. Note where the lifting point of jack is, well back, to compensate for the gearbox weight. You will need to get this right otherwise it could cause problems. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Chrisg Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 That makes life easy. we used to use an engine Crane with a long reach awfull bit of kit :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Well I looked at the 330 diesel today, a lot of white smoke but I thoughts it's worth a punt so I've bought it but I can't collect for another couple of weeks to give him a chance to get it out of the vehicle. Obviously now there's no need at all for me to remove the cab, there's a few odds and sods of welding to be done but with the engine and gear box removed I can get to everything. I'm picking up an electric fork lift I was given next week we rather than the trolley jack I will make something to attach to the forks. It's looks simple enough to fabricate. Cheers for the advice gents! More bloody stupid questions coming soon....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 I've knocked up my interpretation of the engine cradle, unfortunately I'd made it for the forklift, which went wrong, so it was the pallet truck and a couple of bits of wood, but got it out fairly straight forwardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I've knocked up my interpretation of the engine cradle, unfortunately I'd made it for the forklift, which went wrong, so it was the pallet truck and a couple of bits of wood, but got it out fairly straight forwardly. Well done ! looks like the pallet truck could be on the edge of its balance though :-D Engine looks nice and clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yes it would have definately been safer with a forklift. The stand needed an extra 112lb of ballast on the back to balance it. :sweat: Definately will not be fitting the diesel this way, even if I have to borrow or hire a forklift.:cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yes it would have definately been safer with a forklift. The stand needed an extra 112lb of ballast on the back to balance it. :sweat: Definately will not be fitting the diesel this way, even if I have to borrow or hire a forklift.:cry: The one we used, as in the manual photo, was lifted nearer the back of the engine ( by trolley jack) and the skids barely left the ground as it was drawn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 It was lifted fairly evenly with the pallet truck but the balance was out and I couldn't get it in any tighter because of the axle, but it's out and that's the main thing. The only problem is I'm having real doubts about putting the 330 diesel engine in, I don't think it's going to be that easy. The diesel starter motor is on the opposite side to the petrol one. The mounting plate on the rear of the engine doesn't look wide enough to use the TK bell housing and cut a hole in for the starter motor. I think that the bell housing would have to be machined to use with the mounting plate. The likelyhood of finding a bell housing and mounting plate to suit the RL from the earlier 300 diesel is going to be pretty hard if not impossible. I haven't been able to find anyone who has already done it and can tell me the pitfalls of the process. I'm beginning to wonder if I should just go out and buy a Cummins out of a DAF and a 5 speed box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 The only problem is I'm having real doubts about putting the 330 diesel engine in, I don't think it's going to be that easy. I was recently talking to a chap who had bought a ex-army Bedford RL Light recovery, from Manchester area, I think, and that had a Bedford diesel in it. Not sure if I still have his contact details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Basil Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi, I have an RL that has had a 330 engine retro fitted, but I didn't do it. The starter motor is on the passenger side & the only visible mods are to the removable side covers between the cab floor & the engine cover. These are fabricated bulges added on the right to clear rocker box breather & lump on the inlet manifold & on the left side to clear the exhaust. ( which itself is modded to turn sharply backwards after about 2 in out of the manifold. Other wise there seems to be plenty of room all round. The 330 is a lovely old engine averaging about 15 mpg which aint bad considering I've got a box the size of a house on the back !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Basil, it sounds like they used the petrol bell housing and fly wheel, which will just bolt straight onto the back of the engine as far as I can see, my only concern with this is what starter motor to use as I think my CAV diesel starter motor is too long and may foul on the injector pipes, also the fuel filter would need to be repositioned, I have a rotary injector pump. I've only just dismantled my petrol bell housing this evening and haven't had a chance to see if everything mates up. Is there any chance you could take some pics of the starter motor so I can identify it and what injector pump you have. Richard was it a 300 or a 330 in the RL recovery truck. They also used a Leyland engine, I think it was a 350 cu in. Out of curiosity I would like to see if one of these ever got fitted in an RL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Richard was it a 300 or a 330 in the RL recovery truck. They also used a Leyland engine, I think it was a 350 cu in. Out of curiosity I would like to see if one of these ever got fitted in an RL. I don't know whether it was a 300 or 330 diesel, but will see if I can find the contact details of the chap who owns it and ask him, maybe he might have some photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Cheers Richard Well the petrol bell housing fits and the mounting plate, unsurprisingly. I was hoping to use the diesel fly wheel and starter motor but the fly wheel was too large to fit the petrol bell housing so I fitted the petrol fly wheel. The problem is the petrol starter motor is not man enough for the job, I knew it wouldn't be but I tried it anyhow, for a laugh. The diesel starter motor is a no go, doesn't fit the petrol bell housing for a start, the gear is wrong as is the off set so I shall have to do a bit of research. Otherwise the only bit that needed moving was the fuel filter. I suppose the other thing which needs to be looked at is difference in mass between the two fly wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well the petrol bell housing fits and the mounting plate, unsurprisingly. I was hoping to use the diesel fly wheel and starter motor but the fly wheel was too large to fit the petrol bell housing so I fitted the petrol fly wheel. The problem is the petrol starter motor is not man enough for the job, I was sure the petrol starter would not be man enough to use on the diesel. I do have a manual at work, for the 300 diesel, which would have ben an option in the R type, it may well have a bell housing to suit, will try and remember to look tomorrow. I have contacted the chap with the RL recovery, he does not know if it is a 300 or 330 fitted, but will try and get some pics of it when he gets an opportunity. There is the ability to mix and match with parts on these engines and I have a feeling that there is a bell housing with mountings on the side, which you may have to use and then adapt to the chassis. So long as you can use the diesel flywheel and starter. It may be the one fitted to the TJ "bonneted" truck. I assume your engine is from a TK with the large mountings standing on top of the bell housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 LoggyDriver Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Did any of the Bedford coaches use this engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 As I said Richard I only tried the petrol starter motor for a laugh, I knew it wouldn't be man enough. I think the TJ used the same bell housing as the TK except the engine mounts bolt to the side of the bell housing and there's a cross member underneath the bell housing. I think a bit more research, when I have a chance to work on it next it will be welding the cab up. LoggyDriver - they used the 300 and 330 in coaches and buses, I assume the R type coach rolling chassis used the same set up as the rest of the models, although I would imagine they centred the engine and gear box in the two wheel drive models, there wouldn't seem to be a need to mount it to one side to clear the diff and prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Richard Farrant Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 As I said Richard I only tried the petrol starter motor for a laugh, I knew it wouldn't be man enough. I think the TJ used the same bell housing as the TK except the engine mounts bolt to the side of the bell housing and there's a cross member underneath the bell housing. I think a bit more research, when I have a chance to work on it next it will be welding the cab up. LoggyDriver - they used the 300 and 330 in coaches and buses, I assume the R type coach rolling chassis used the same set up as the rest of the models, although I would imagine they centred the engine and gear box in the two wheel drive models, there wouldn't seem to be a need to mount it to one side to clear the diff and prop. ACH, I think you may be able to use the other mounting holes in the diesel bell housing and make some mounting plates to mate up with the chassis holes. The bus and coach chassis were SB type, I don't think the engine is offset any different in a S type, from a R type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ACH Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 I'd like to say after hours of carefull research I had come up with a simple solution for the starter motor, but I would be lying. The 330 diesel engine is sitting on the work bench, whilst changing the starter solenoid on a Landrover starter motor I noticed that the mounting holes were exactly the same as the RL petrol one. So I thought I'd see if it would line up, it does, it even meshes perfectly with the ring gear. OK this starter motor is designed to turn over a 2.5 diesel, you would have thought that it wouldn't have been capable of turning over a 5.4 ltr engine. But I thought what have I got to loose, I'll try it, I was absolutely amazed how quickly it turned the engine over compared to the CAV one on the original 330 set up. So if you want to fit a 330 in place of your 300 petrol you just need to swap over the petrol mounting plate, bell housing and flywheel and use a Landrover 200/300 TDi starter motor. Obviously it needs to be tested properly so a couple of months of service when the vehicle is back on the road and then we can see how it lasts. Equally if your starter motor packs up on you petrol engine I think it's a worthy replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 LoggyDriver Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) That's fantastic, trust the good old Land Rover to come to the rescue. The beauty with that is you will be able to get a replacement off the shelf at any Landy dealer. I take it your electrics are 12v then? Edited December 12, 2009 by LoggyDriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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ACH
Any helpful hints on removal of the cab?
I know there's 6 bolts holding it on and a couple of other bits to disconnect, but I'm not too sure the best way to support it. I'm worried about using a spreader through the doors as this might damage the roof.
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