Mark Ellis

2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Asset Code 2455-0065

Contract No. FV2522
If you google that you will just get Adidas golf shoes : (

Sadly, they appear to have been sold off around 1978, 8 years before Merlin was started, otherwise we'd have more info.
I'm still trying to find evidence of the 651, 652, 653 variants.
I do wonder if the 651 is the first Mk6, and then the 652 is the A - D
This RAF book doesn't give an FV number

Would anyone know how many Salamanders the AFS had?

And come to that, what evidence is there of numbers held by RAF? Did the RNAS have any?

The only Army Salamander that I've ever seen is 52EK60, in NI role with water canon. But this first image shows it as a AFS fire engine. 

I also note that the tail end is square, compared to the RAF version being rounded. 

An RAF Crash

It's also suggested that the RAF driver training vehicles had the number F.V. 653. Any evidence of that? 

Many thanks

Just wondering if the 20 minute film was ever digitised. Would love a copy to put on the webpage @wally dugan @Dave Jenner
Is there any definite figures of RAF and Army Fire Service numbers?

@Rob5 what were the DP vehicles, make and model etc? They never seem to get mentioned

This Salamander page is growing
https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-salamander-crash-tender 

Pretty much settee bound at the moment with a funny head thing going on, so threw this Salamander page together on the Stolly website.

Any donation of documents, articles or manuals to help others most welcome, and really appreciated. Happy to scan manuals in if you can send them to me. Thank you.

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-salamander-crash-tender

Pretty much settee bound at the moment, so threw this Salamander page together on the Stolly website.
Any donation of documents, articles or manuals most welcome and appreciated.

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-salamander-crash-tender

On 8/28/2023 at 10:38 AM, wally dugan said:

As 52 EK 60 came into service in the sixties its record is on a 419B history card now is held at the RLC MUSEUM . 00 AG 79 are you sure its registration number was  07 ER 63 as l have it as 07 ER 67 the EK series of numbers are at RLC

Hi Wally,

I typed up a response to you in the early hours of this morning, but clearly forgot to send it. Had a headache and buzzing ear for 3 days now, and clearly making mistakes.

According to MERLIN, 07ER67 stayed in service with the Army until 1993. MERLIN was started in 1986, and backdated to 84, and doesn't show 57 or 63, which kind of supports the information that I have somewhere. Today's not the day for trying to find it, with this head thing going on. But I do know there are some human errors and omissions in MERLIN. But at least we have vehicle records, unlike some countries 😁

But from what I have on the website 

00AG79 (07ER63) from March 1967 and 09AH16 (07ER57) from December 1971 on GAN to March 1976

I know it's an old thread, but

@Dave Jenner the only Salamander that I think the Army had was 52EK60, as a riot control vehicle in NI. I have no history on it, so don't know if it transferred, or went straight into Army service.

There is no mention of Salamander in the computer program, MERLIN, which was created in 1986 and backdated to cover anything in the services in 1984. Which means 52EK60 was possibly disposed of before 1984.

If you've got any PDF manuals of the Salamander that you'd be kind enough to donate, I'm quite keen to add them to the growing collection on my website

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-section/stalwart-files-manuals

I'll just mention. The two Mark 2 Stalwarts that were transferred to the RAF for Reef rescue at Gan, appear not to have transferred back to the Army when finished with in 1976 - when the Mark 1 were still in service until 1993. Mark 2 Stalwarts 07ER57 and 07ER63 were transferred to the RAF, becoming Reef Rescue vehicles 09AH16 and 00AG79. So it's probable that the RAF Salamanders were disposed off, rather than transferred.

4 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Well spotted but I think the seller has misunderstood that all these photos  marked 17.10.68 on the back relate to the date that the previous owner absorbed them into his collection by writing his name & address on the back. As such give an impression that these were all photographed on 17.10.68 which is clearly unlikely.

It is quite possible that the photos were manufacturer manipulated. I think I have seen a similar sort of thing with Swingfire missiles added to a Saracen.

 

I wonder if Alvis touted Sweden to refit the two PVs up to Mark 1 FV620 with winch standard 

2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Well spotted but I think the seller has misunderstood that all these photos  marked 17.10.68 on the back relate to the date that the previous owner absorbed them into his collection by writing his name & address on the back. As such give an impression that these were all photographed on 17.10.68 which is clearly unlikely.

It is quite possible that the photos were manufacturer manipulated. I think I have seen a similar sort of thing with Swingfire missiles added to a Saracen.

 

Oh, ok. I have seen other manufacturer manipulated photos of the stalwart. just seems odd that the winch is right at the bottom of the front plate.

Alvis did put in the miscellaneous items list in their own manual for PV4 and 5 in 1962, that a winch is fitted on the left side of the cab. There is no information in the vehicle data, and no photographic evidence of a winch - suggesting that perhaps it was a Tirfor winch. They were standard G1098 kit of Royal Engineer field squadrons.

Many thanks for the explanation, Clive.

There is someone selling black and white photos on eBay, predominantly of Alvis Stalwarts but also other things.

They're claiming that all the photos are genuine from 1968. Most of them are actually from 1960 to 1963.

But they're also selling things like these.

This is PV 4, bought by Sweden in 1962. It's a pre production vehicle, and is chassis number 4

Below is another photo that they are selling for £15. It's the same photo as above, but someone has photoshopped the image.

It now has the final (stronger) version of the sideboards, which were introduced when the cranes came in - 1969, and it suddenly has a winch rope coming out of the bottom of the front plate, and zig zagging around the side of the cab.

2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

here is the page as promised

pv2.bmp 11.37 MB · 3 downloads

That's brilliant,  @wally dugan
Many thanks for that.

12 hours ago, wally dugan said:

mark when l said l had a picture of the PV2 that had the meadows gear box fitted it is the pv2 not the gearbox but the spec con firms it is fitted at the moment the printer is off line but when its back on line l will  post the page from the 1962 book. l may have  a diagram of pv 2 in among the drawings but at this time l am down sizing  my vehicles 

 

Thanks for clarifying that, Wally.

I'm in an internet black hole today, waiting for the dog to have some tests done.

You'd think a University campus would have better phone signals. Upload speed of 0.04, takes forever to send a text response

I wonder if it states the Meadow gearbox model number at all for PV2,  please. 

2 hours ago, attleej said:

Interesting.  Presumably they made their own box so that they could have a power take off for the propulsion units at full engine RPM and torque and still be able to engage a rage of forward gears to get out of the water.

John 

Perhaps @wally dugan would be kind enough to share a photo of PV2's gearbox to show how it was all first set up with the Meadows box. It had the drives for the propulsion system and hydraulics from the beginning of PV2. 

From what I've read, they envisaged a top speed of 50 mph on the road, but that was sacrificed to around 40 (we used to almost get 43 on the Mk 2) because of the grunt needed for the off roading. Because the privately owned ones will never carry 5 tons of weight, people fit the Saracen transfer box gears, to give a greater top road speed. Some also fit air lockers on the front and rear drive shafts, so just the middle wheels propel them on the road. 

When FVRDE trilled PV1, which was just a Salamander fire crash tender with a cheap drop side body fitted, they reported that it performed off road worse than the Saracen - mainly due to the pre select gearbox.

 I've had a look through the SEME manual and parts list, but can't find an image that gives a cross section of the gearbox - to show how the take offs were powered at the clutch end of the box, on the primary drive.

The red area is the Marine propulsion drive, with the hydraulic pump at the front of it.

26 minutes ago, attleej said:

An interesting question is, if the later stollys did not have the Meadows gearbox, what were they fitted with?

John

Alvis made their own 5 speed box, John
In the red box is the gearbox, with the power take off feeds on top for the Hydraulic pump and the Marine propulsion system drives.
The yellow is the gear box gear selector link.
The blue is the Transfer box, housing the Forward and Reverse gear, and limited slip dog clutch. The drive goes out sideways to the two central bevel boxes.
 

38 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

PV 2 Was the first to have the meadows fitted  2720RW the FVRDE 1962 BOOK has a picture of it pv4/5/6 DO NOT appear in the FVRDE files

Thanks for the confirmation of PV2's box, Wally. Greatly appreciated. 
I guess then that PV 7 was an Alvis box.

Very little is know about PV7.
I think this is PV 7 at Earls court Commercial motor show in 1962.

Two books claim that it's PV2, but PV2 has very distinct side and indicator lights on the front.

What I think is PV 7 has a very distinct front side window.
I have photos of PV3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10, and none have a window like this on the side. Almost like it's designed to release somehow.

9 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

l thought the meadows was only fitted to the very early stalwart 2720 the later ones xx sp xx had the standard  one

 

Hi Wally.
PV 4 and PV5 were sold to Sweden in 1962. Alvis wrote a provisional instruction manual for them, which states that they have Meadows boxes. I guess the Alvis one was introduced around PV8, as the American report from July 1963 doesn't mention Meadows in the description.
I'm struggling to find any document or spec for PV6, which was bought by Italy.

This extract is from the Alvis manual for PV4 and PV5
 

The full Alvis provisional manual can be viewed here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14218dLk89Is0P4Wo2mfFfzm9T4uv4c2k/view?usp=sharing

I'm slowly gathering more evidence of the differences of the PVs, most of which is included here 
https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/development-of-the-alvis-stalwart

1 hour ago, David Herbert said:

Does it have a reverse gear? If not that would greatly limit its applications. Or it could be a 5F + R with the R deleted or it may be a 4F + R design modified to give 5F but no R especially for the Stalwart / Salamander project.

David

Forward and Reverse is done by the Transfer box. In the Stolly, it did 40 mph forwards and backwards. The other FV600 all had pre select gearboxes and the forward/reverse transfer box

I don't know if many military vehicles used the Meadows 5 speed gearbox, but it was used on some of the prototype Alvis Stalwarts around 1961/62.

I can't find anything on the internet on Meadows gearboxes, other than they made them. I've emailed Wolverhampton Archives, but not hopeful.

Does anyone have or know any details on the Meadows 5 speed truck gearbox, please. 

Your help is greatly appreciated.

I would appreciate it if anyone has manuals for the DISA 400 mount, and can lend them.

Got a couple of guys on my Bedford group that need help with maintaining the mounts. I've done an FOI to MOD, but they claim that don't have anything for these anymore.

Drop me a message if you have anything on paper or PDF. It will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks

1 hour ago, Enigma said:

Cool control tower!

It's neat, isn't it. Two fork lift masts on a trailer

It turns out that the Tankograd book doesn't have the TM 6x6 FV numbers.

Here's the list of Bedford FV numbers that I've compiled so far.
Once I think it's pretty complete, I'll submit it to MOD to check.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j8ZBPXFsOKttmYEIzhkyv-ETA8Q2UTMjFi22o5HdlfE/edit?usp=sharing  

Just through that some show people might find this of interest.

Images are from the Austrian Military History Museum / Military History Institute  (Heeresgeschichtliches Museum / Militärhistorisches Institut)

at https://www.hgm.at/en

Shows are always looking for things to help draw in the crowds, so thought I'd share these images of various vehicles driving over the log run.

They also have an amazing Commentary box, which raises up for a grandstand view of the arena.

These

2 hours ago, sandownbay said:

Further to your message asking me to photo copy the pages in question, I am not prepared to be in breach of Tankograd's copyright. Therefore I suggest you buy a copy of the book, plenty on UK E-Bay at present.

Dear Sandownbay - with the hidden name,

Many thanks for the response.
Personally, I have no need for an over priced book to clutter my home, just to obtain information that is already in the public domain. As per my original post, I will be doing an FOI request later in the year, which is where Tankograd will have obtained it from. I currently have an FOI for some Bedford AESP's to help members on my Bedford M type group on Facebook. I don't actually own any ex military vehicle. I'm a natural facilitator, and helpful where I can be.

Having seen Tankograd's Stalwart book, and the errors in there, Tankograd is not a publisher that I would support.

I recently saw an extract of the new Military Vehicle Archive - Volume 1. I'm at a loss as to where they got their Stalwart information from, but shocked that these publishers are all so keen to mislead the public who buy such publications.

What you won't be aware of is that not only have I spent hours every day Since Lockdown 2020 collecting Military documents and other evidence to provide fact, partially due to all the wrong information on Wikipedia - and all the keyboard warriors on there who delete accurate stuff because they refuse to glance at the evidence in military EMERS and User manuals on my website. 
Unlike a certain museum in Dorset who is illegally selling Restricted EMERs, all the EMERs that I've sourced have been declassified by MOD at Abbey Wood and put on my website for free download - to help keep the remaining vehicles out of the scrap yards.

You also won't be aware that I've dipped into my own pocket to buy rare documents from France, Sweden, etc to build the bigger - and translated them. 

Which is why I get confused over someone shouting "Buy it yourself" when community exchange works so well for snippets of information.

Do take a look at

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/

56 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

I have several lists that I take to be copied from the main ledger. I don't know the compiler of this particular list that I have had for many years, but it seems the most accurate & easy to interpret.

Clive, that is brilliant.
Thank you

14 hours ago, sandownbay said:

Tankograd book British Military trucks of the cold war on page's 83 84 lists all the information you are seeking, from RL's, MK's TM 4x4 TM 6x6 etc .For instance your No FV13806 is a 4.5 ton MK GS left hand drive.

Thanks. Not a publication that I own.
Can someone share that with me please