Mark Ellis

Have some photos of the Stalwart mark 1 Classroom Instruction Model, courtesy of the Alvis Archive Trust

But also coloured in this Ghost drawing of a Stalwart

51 minutes ago, B series said:

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The Ruddington 109th sale on 12 Jan 1971, Lot 769 listed as Alvis Berliet, 3 Ton, 4x4, LHD. with ERM 02 SP 31.

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Hope this helps with you research.

That's fantastic, @B series. 02SP31 will be the one that Mick Green tested back in the 60s. 

He's lost some memory, but remembers strongly taking the Ambulance Land Rover to Australia, testing the Berliet 3 ton, and also the Commer that lost out to the Bedford MK. I'm making up some memory PDF's for him, and those details above really help.

Thank you

Thank you

On 4/19/2024 at 3:59 PM, B series said:

 

Ruddington 103rd sale was 14 to 16th October 1969. I can add nothing further about the trials or use of the vehicles when is service.

As attleej mentioned in his post,  these vehicle types do have a large and impressive engine.

@B series Would the Berliet GCB 8 KT 4x4 be listed in the sales at all? Would be nice to know when it was moved on.

Thanks

Managed to get hold of a Berliet GBC dash layout, and knocked this up.
A friend used to work at FVRDE, and still remembers the 4x4 Berliet GBC - complete with the switch on the dash to change from petrol to other fuels 

25 minutes ago, B series said:

I have don't know the purchase price circa 1964. But I would say it appears of cheaper construction than the  FV designs of the 1950's that came out of the WD design office. e.g Leyland Martian 6x6 Recovery.

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I've translated a couple of articles in the French magazine "Charge Utile". The authors seem to think the Stalwart was a commercial 6x6 modified to swim, when of course the FV600 series were punt hulls.

They make comments about Alvis only selling 1000, and the orders not coming in. What they forget was that the Stalwart was £16,000 in 1963, with the mark 2 being £20,000 a piece in 66.

4 hours ago, attleej said:

I should have also mentioned that it has a large and impressive price tag!

 

John

I'm trying to find out how much the TBU 15 and GBC 8 cost around 1964. Do you know what they were?

6 hours ago, B series said:

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As attleej mentioned in his post,  these vehicle types do have a large and impressive engine.

The number in the Berliet truck names is the engine litreage. The TBU 6x6 being 15 litres, and the GBC 4x4 being 8

2 minutes ago, radiomike7 said:

Looks like a live ad for one in the UK.

https://www.militarymart.co.uk/products/french-army-berliet-6x6-recovery-truck

It's the right sort of year for manufacture, but suggests it was first registered in 1999

Hi all,

VERY long shot here, but I wonder if anyone has any prices for French Berliet trucks around 1964 / 1965. Or knows where I might find soemthing.

I've joined a number of French and Berliet groups, and the French don't really appear to have saved much in the way of brochures, prices, etc.

I've ready a couple of articles about the Berliet Aurochs (The French Stalwart) and they all talk about low sales figures of the Stolly. In reality of course, the mark 1 was £16,000 in 1964, an awful lot of money. The military journalists seem to think that the Stolly is like a DUKW, just another commercially available truck that's been modified to float - which of course it isn't. So I'm keen to show the price of the Berliet TBU and GBC to show the difference in value.

I've tried trawling the French newspapers, but can't even find adverts or reviews after 1950 for civilian Berliet trucks.

Thanks

1 hour ago, B series said:

43ER38 & 43ER39 were two Berliet TBU recovery vehicles supplied via Alvis for trials with REME.  You can see the applied Alvis red triangle logo attached to 43ER39.

They were part of a commercial agreement where Alvis would market Berliet trucks in some markets, and Berliet would market Alvis Stalwarts in markets which Berliet had a strong presence at the time, eg N Africa.

 

43ER38 was sold at the Ruddington 103rd sale Lot 1380

43ER39 was trialed in Aden 1964, returned to the UK and sold at the Ruddington 103rd sale Lot 1379

As far as I know there were only two Berliet TBU supplied.

 

When was the 103rd Ruddington sale, please?

There doesn't appear to be any record of the two TBUs being tested by FVRDE, just troop trials.

There was at least one Berliet GCB 8 KT 4x4 submitted to FVRDE for trials.

I was directed to Phil of PMtransportphotos, who assures me this photo belongs to Ken Porter.

I wonder if this was taken at FVRDE, due to the Scammell next to it.  43 ER 38, to go with 43 ER 39

Thanks to more people providing random manuals of military vehicles and equipment, and non military commercial vehicles, including the generous Iain @Mk3iain,

 I've changed this page to be a Vehicle Manuals Library. 

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/vehicle-manuals-library

I've got more manuals promised to me, and some that I could do with being offered to help others. But the free Library, to help others is growing.

Thanks to those that have sent someone. And for those with paper copies, I'm happy to scan them in and return, or send them on to the relevant County archive.

Mark

34 minutes ago, Gordon_M said:

What's the difference between the 651 and the 652 please?   I was tempted by one in Ross of Girvans yard many years ago.

Hi

I think 651 was the prototype, and 652 was the production model. Take a look at https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/alvis-fv600-wheeled-section/alvis-salamander-crash-tender

But there were a number of different models in the 652

Just a matter of interest the different marks of the Mk 6 is as follows;

The original Mk 6 had a suction eye, the CBM (later BCF) hoses on drums, and had a 2500 GPM monitor.

Mk 6 B is the Mk 6, but converted in service to a 2500/5000 GPM monitor.

Mk 6 A did not have a suction eye; the CBM (later BCF) hoses were flaked in, and had a 2500 GPM monitor.

Mk 6 C same as Mk 6A but had a 2500/5000 GPM monitor.

Mk 6 D is the Mk 6A, but converted in service to a 2500/5000 GPM monitor.

Added by Dave Wickwar on 15 January 2012.

Hi all,

I was wondering if there's a coloured ghost drawing of the FV651/652 Salamander, the same as these Saladin and Saracen drawings?

I'd appreciate a copy if there is please

Many thanks

18 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

Mark that Appendix A is the only reference I have found for instructional colours. It comes from AC No.70119 Driver Training Vol. I, Part I, 1965.

It superseded WO Code No. 8672 1951 but that had no colour details.

What is RGB / Hex code?

The VAOS Section H1(a) Paints, dopes & varnishes will give the BSC381C.

Other than 'Orange' and 'Red oxide' all the colour descriptions are BSC defined.

Thanks. I'll have to work out my own colour scheme, once I understand what the official scheme colours are

RGB is Red, Green, Blue computer code, Hex is # with 6 characters to give a colour, so #000000 is black, #FFFFFF is white, and #FAE800 is the yellow on these prop shafts

On 4/7/2024 at 10:52 PM, fv1609 said:

These instructional artefacts can have intriguing colour schemes. They should be painted according to a strict protocol that I found in a driver training manual.

 

@fv1609 Hi Clive,

Is there a colour code for engine, gearbox, transfer box, drive shafts, wheel stations, etc, please?

And also, any RGB / Hex codes for the colours. Many thanks

5 minutes ago, david1212 said:

Proof of ID, age I presume. I can't recall if they also wanted something with address. I did not send so they closed / locked the account . I requested my record but they never sent.

For some Facebook pages at the the latest few entries can be viewed without  logging in. For others none. The latter total understandable if individual but not if a business, museum or similar.

I don't recall ever being asked for proof of ID, except for the phone number. But that was under the old Facebook, not the current owner - Meta.
Some groups are private because we get bombarded with spam posts, and applications from spammers 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/110456768992136 

@10FM68 You've seen this WW2 trailer group on Facebook ? 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/619129048119269 

38 minutes ago, PanhardM3 said:

 

One of the three supplied to the Defence Forces in Ireland,  8819 ZO is in private hands.

Any idea of how long they were in service for?

So, apart from 43ER39 - what other British Army registration numbers do we have for the Berliet-Alvis TBU15 wreckers, or were there any other versions of the TBU also offered to MOD? 

During the December 1963 to around July 1965 agreement between Alvis and Berliet, two Stalwarts went to France, with some TBU coming to the UK. We know from these photos that 43ER39 was one, going to Aden.

Note, Alvis was moved to BL in the summer of 1965, and BL blocked l'accord as its first act.

One TBU is said to have gone to BAOR.

One was at the 1964 Earls Court Commercial Motor Show of 1964, on Alvis' stand with STAL 33.

I know that the French MOD passed STAL 34 to Musée des Blindés in 1975.

No Berliet or Alvis wrecker appears in MERLIN, so we can presume that they were cast before January 1984.

It's going to be down to photos or F.V.R.D.E. reports

2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

ADRIAN l had a  young lady come to work in the workshops before going on to university  with the plan to join the REME after doing a degree in engineering l gave her the project of overhauling the jeep and she did a first class job freeing off all the parts and colour coding the parts when she finished l the helped her power the the parts showing the firing order by stripping spark plugs and fitting small bulbs which light up when the engine rotated  the drive train all could rotate and four wheel could be engaged all powered through a transformer  

I'm sure that the Saracen hull at ASMT Leconfield did something. There was a battery connected to it, but I can't remember what 

3 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

These instructional artefacts can have intriguing colour schemes. They should be painted according to a strict protocol that I found in a driver training manual.

 

Apparently, this was RMCS Shrivenham. I guess they were above all that 

31 minutes ago, david1212 said:

Regarding Facebook anything on there might as well be on Mars.

Given their past history I will not give them my personal details, copy of birth certificate etc.

😲

I'm intrigued. Why do you think Facebook wants a copy of your birth certificate?

@Mk3iain Beavering away, thanks

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/other-manufacturers/eager-bever-forklift?

17 minutes ago, REME 245 said:

Unless it is in a private collection somewhere I would be surprised if it has survived.   A lot of vehicles, artillery and other artifacts have moved through the Shrivingham collection over the years to be replaced when they no longer have a relevance to the latest generation of students.  If the main stream Museums expressed no interest it would have been scraped.

Indeed. It was probably offered to the RLC and then dumped. But should have gone to Gaydon or Coventry

This was their email