Mark Ellis

On 6/1/2020 at 9:40 AM, wally dugan said:

 Always liked  the STALWART  l have five different catalogues  from ALVIS  on them and a one hour video of the factory the early trials the sea trials and its off road trials  the prototype water trials were conducted in a flooded quarry

You've got an incredible collection there, Wally.
I've managed to gather quite a bit on the Stalwart over the last two years, which is free on the website - with more on the Facebook group. 

https://sites.google.com/view/alvis-stalwart-hmlc-files/hmlc-stalwart-files? 

Always keen to see more, especially on the Camion. Would love to know what happened to Camion.

@wally dugan
 

You mentioned that you have all the files on your computer, does that include the MK EMER and Army Code Number files? 

Could I see your list of 41 Bedford files please. Many thanks

2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

You asked when the MKs left service the answer was the mid 1990s and by 2000 most if not all had gone the last up date on documents  was 2009 and that did not include  MKs only  MJs

 

I've just had a little play with Merlin. Merlin is an MOD computer Database program of equipment stock, with In Service and Cast (Disposal) dates. Merlin was started in 1986, and back dated to 1984. So any vehicle disposed of before 1984 would not appear on Merlin - which would include a number of MKs

Here's the results for the MK and MJ, and includes the number of vehicles that do not have a recorded Cast date. That could be human error or sat forgotten.
Merlin shows the bulk of the MJs being cast in 2013, but I've seen a M types in Chickerell Camp, perhaps three years ago

3 hours ago, fv1609 said:

They are going to love you at Abbey Wood : )

If they don't have anything or it is too much time/effort your request may be regarded as vexatious, which has happened to me because the person on the other end couldn't grasp the points of the request.

If all else fails I have found a stash of FAESP 2320-H-100 octads that I haven't catalogued, I might be persuaded to sell the set.

Abbey Wood have been really helpful, partially because I've been giving them all the EMERs and ACN files for them to declassify. It's taken two years, but unlike a number of websites who are selling poor photo copies of photocopies on CD's - mine are legal - and they're all breaching the Official Secrets Act.
It partially took two years as I took my eye off the ball whilst working. Damn work.

These files, like the HMLC files, are being put on the web to try and keep whatever is remaining out of the scrapyards. I don't mind paying the odd bit of postage to return people's files - but I'm not buying anything. I think the MOD will have all of the AESP's and if not then I now have most of them on PDF here. The MK ones might be a different matter. It's a question of when the War reserve and RAF got ride of the last MKs.

I now have all of these on PDF

But want these from MOD

And want these 

Thanks for your help, Clive.

Onwards and upwards

16 hours ago, Richard Farrant said:

Mark,

There was another main difference between MK and MJ, that was in the air brake system. On the MK all air pipes were steel. On the MJ they were plastic pipes, this meant that all the fittings, elbows and adaptors were different.

Thanks for this, Richard.

My point was that in regards to CES of the MK and MJ, they'll still be the same wheel brace and jack, etc, and the same ground anchor scotches and cables if it's a W/Winch.

19 hours ago, fv1609 said:

I had forgotten I have a further publication cross-reference in AESP 0200-A-096-013 Oct 1999

This also attributes 2038-6174 to MK rather than MJ.

Clive, I'm getting confused. is AESP 0200-A-096-013 a reference catalogue book, or an MJ CES book

17 hours ago, Richard Farrant said:

Mark,

The Army contract MK with crane - the IPC (Illustrated Parts Catalogue) for the crane only is Army Code 22753

The RAF MK with crane -  The crane IPC is Army Code 22883

Thanks, Richard.

Would you have the Air Publication number for that, just in case the Army one has gone - which it probably has?

2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

I had forgotten I have a further publication cross-reference in AESP 0200-A-096-013 Oct 1999

This also attributes 2038-6174 to MK rather than MJ.

The difference between the MK and MJ really is the Multi-fuel engine of the MK, compared to the pure diesel engine of the MJ. The other difference really being that the MJ's all came with the later Marshalls body, which didn't have the stowage bins and holders for the stowage of the canopy and its superstructure.

I've got enough now to put the FOI in for the Bedford MK, and see what comes back. 

Thanks for your help, Clive

2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Mark I have two main cross-referencing sources to B & E Vehicle publications that don't always agree.

REME Technical Services BAOR. March 1991
Army Technical Support Agency. August 1998

2050-0061  MK P2BMO  with winch CES AC No 34220

2094-0174 RHD MK P2BMO with 3T crane CES AC No 31114
2094-5174 LHD MK P2BMO with 3T crane CES AC No 31114

2038-6174 LHD MK P2BMO armament support with 3T crane CES AC No 31363
But 1991 list ascribes this to MJ.

Brilliant. Thank you

9 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

..!

EMER MANAGEMENT J 022 has nearly 100 pages of codes, there are 3 pages mainly of MJ & MK codes that I can copy if you want.

 

Clive, thanks for this. I shall skip the code, thank you
But if you could have a look to see if there's a CES listing for
W/Winch Bedford MK P2BMO
W/Crane Bedford MK P2BMO

Thanks

7 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Mark if you google for Asset Codes you will find that the MOD can only quote the current structure & has no understanding that this morphed from a system that on the face of it was identical, but was constructed differently.  

...

 

Good lord. Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm glad you're copying and pasting that, so much information there 

12 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

I have just check the list there is no  701 in the 48 publication on MK/MJ that  l have. l no longer copy the EMER's or AESP's due to the actions of former forum member Sorry but as l do  have a spare copy of the CES above if you send your home address l will pop it in the post

Wally, thank you for the offer.

It's so upsetting when you lend files to others, and they don't come back.

Could I see your list of 48 Bedford files please. 

Do you have the CES as a PDF, as I'd rather have PDFs than posting files around. Did a lot of that for the Stalwart files. But before we start posting files, I'm going to see what MOD come back with.

I guess your version of the CES doesn't include the ground anchor scotches?

29 minutes ago, wally dugan said:

l believe l have most if not all the publications   on computer that one there may be a spare copy as l did one for a   owner of a MJ some time back 

I'm not sure that there is a 701, but if you have PDFs of these other ones then I'd appreciate a PDF. 

Whilst the FOI is in, with the Stolly files - I supplied them all to MOD to get them declassified - and then put them on the group and website. Just want to help keep the vehicles out of the scrap yards were possible.

Many thanks

1 hour ago, wally dugan said:

Like you have have had a long interest in ASEP's and EMERS and have been very lucky in a massing a large collection. l notice that this is missing from your list as to your question about the winch and crane is yes there are

 

Wally hi,

Thanks for that. Do you hold a copy of that manual?

11 hours ago, fv1609 said:

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

Clive, thanks for this.
Is there a listing for
With Winch MK
With Crane MK

I think the With Winch MJ is 31497

What does it mean by asset code

28 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

Mark,

I note in your list of MK associated publications is one for a HIAB crane, not sure whether these were ever used on Army MK or MJ as I worked in REME workshops for 22 years and all the mounted loader cranes I ever had dealings with were Atlas make. I used to repair and test the cranes as one of my tasks.

 

You're right. I'm not sure where the item came from, but might be a TK item. The FOI for that has already gone in, so it won't hurt if it comes back. 

11 hours ago, fv1609 said:

This is from the detailed index EMER WHEELED VEHICLES A 100 Jan 1983. Associated publications will need a lot more digging to find the references.

 

So the MK EMERs are F230 to F239? Thanks

For some reason I thought they would be Vxxx

3 hours ago, fv1609 said:

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

Did the MOD re-release the MK files as AESPs, or just stick with the EMERs?

2 hours ago, fv1609 said:

There are several more pages like this with MK variants not to mention MJ variants.

It takes a bit of untangling in this abbreviated form as there are Army Coded publications, EMERs & AESPs.

 

If I can get a look at an EMER Workshop manual (like the V64X files for the stolly), and an Army Code Number User Manual - that would give me the key manuals.
Much of the MJ vehicle is MK, so the MJ AESPs that I have will cover most repairs. But be good to have the manuals for the Multi-fuel MKs

Re the CES - just the basic for the With Winch would give a good enough idea of what was carried

7 hours ago, robin craig said:

Thank you on behalf of the rest of us for the work you have done

 

Thanks. Really need a list of Associated Publications for the MK, so the MOD have named items to look for 

Having successfully compiled a list of manuals and guides for the Stolly, I'm now gathering files for the Bedford Mk and MJ

There's a few files already released by the MOD for the MJ, but a few that aren't. I have submitted a second FOI for more files, but what I have so far is coloured in the chart below.
The orange colour means I have examples still restricted. Easy enough to get them unrestricted though. Incredibly, the Stolly IR switch is still classified information, so I guess the Bedford one will be as well.

If you've got any files, especially the MK, and can help then please drop me a line
Thanks

I have Bedford files 

But seek Bedford files

I don't have any MK files. I have asked MOD, but they might not have them so seek your help

I have the following MJ files

But seek the following files. I have asked MOD for these

Thanks for your help

On 8/14/2022 at 11:24 AM, wally dugan said:

On the subject of footage of the stalwart   FRVDE had a 16mm film of the stalwart which showed shots of the alvis factory making the hulls for saladin and others the factory trails of the prototype stalwart 2020RW cross country trails and the sea trails as well as shot of things like towing a 5.5  and a { broken down} centurion the whole thing runs for just under a hour and l just have watched it

 

Would love to see that. Remember seeing a film at Cadets in the late 70s, which showed one towing a Centurion on a gravel track.

Imperial War Museum have been given loads of old army films, but sadly are only digitising a small number of them 

Thanks for the response. It's such a great resource

1 hour ago, Johnny said:

Looks like this is him: Merlin Jones | Facebook
 

I messaged him on Sunday, which hasn't been read yet. I posted on his Facebook wall yesterday, saying that I'd left a message about the website.
It's interesting that he has a deceased friend, who has the same name as the guy who originally set the website up. This being why I left a message and then posted on his wall.

3 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Not very good as I had to use my camera then reduce in size to upload as I have no broadband just using a watery phone link from the roof to communicate.

What would really interest you I think is JSP 71 Vol 1 covering road, rail, sea & air Stalwart transport. But it is over 30 pages & too much time & effort & not enough bandwidth. Could scan the odd key pages but not all of it I'm afraid.

 

Really appreciate that, Clive.

I've sent you a message