steveo578

I think they ran a segment on the M24s flown into Dien Bien Phu -I'can't remember if they said where the M24 in the programme came from -I suspect it was from the USA. The post French Indo-China was M24s used in Vietnam were interesting along, with the M41s and PCs they were often refered to a Coup bugys by US advisers and journalists being used in several coups -the last president of South Vietnam -an air force colonel kept redundant M24s at several air bases as an insurance. The M41s and M113s shown in the pictures were probably later than the Communist takeover having continued in service during the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia to put down the Kamer Rouge in the 1980s and served on the border against possible Chinese incursions into the 1990s. Steve

Me too, I once received an early morning ear ache 'phone call from a girlie from EH or the Uni regarding a tank recovery which was unfortuneatly within a Roman training camp boundary-so after listening to her rant I finally asked if she had a GCSE in German - why -because if it wasn't for the piece of s*** lump of rust she was berating and the men who used it she might be speaking German- needless to say she hung up. Steve

I stand corrected -So the vehicle under restoration is the Vickers utility I mentioned in post#8 which is complete mechanically including the its air filter stack and has its plate still in place. The add was a bit vague and especially as no photos were shown -using the photo of the experimental Vickers Utility with the Bernither Machine gun is not helpful. Steve

Yes I would think wandering around the border with Macedonia, Bulgaria and Turkey which is still a hot zone without permission might be unwise, however back in the 1990s I got a really nice letter from the Greek Army in effect an open invitation to look around their historic stuff should I go to Greece so they can't be all that bad. Steve

Sorry I got the impression from you post#3 that it was some-one intent -not necessarily your guys, to pull them out as a museum? I can understand your point I used to prentend to do the same thing on dry land. Ok Eddy get your flippers out you need to go for a swim.

Two Saladins were resident on the RAF range for many years The Red survey target was removed in 1998 Steve

They did actually recover 2 complete M4A1 DD to the museum at Commes -all salvage is a learning curve. Steve

Some if not all the Greek Centaurs had the original flat engine deck. The turrets may have survived as they were used as strong points on the land borders- whether any are still in place is an open question. It is quite irritating that Portugal has a number of compete Centaurs -although I suppose one British museum exhibit may be a rebuild or completed to Cromwell standard. Steve

True, better than poluting the sea -however I think they want the turrets for their hulls assuming they manage to recover them- certainly in France they pulled a sherman up by the turret -strop though the cupola and loaders hatch and ended up with only the turret:shocked: Steve

Perhaps or not, I was under the very vague impression the original post was refering to one in France. Steve

I believe the wreck had to be sunk by other vessels after it had capsized. All British LCT 2 and 3 were prone to broaching -so would be difficult to take under tow if it lost power added to which the LC in question was armoured adding to instability and the Centaurs raised up out of the well deck on their ramps would exagerate this -it almost a miracle it did not capsize before the crew got off. Eddy!:nono::nono::nono: I don't think they are considering recovery to assist MV restoration.:-D Steve

Could be anywhere really personally the steep gabbles on the buldings is reminisant of Alsace -ie a high snow area. the only reason I mentioned post war use in Spain was that the original poster mentioned that he thought the transporter was later than WW1. Having blown up the somewhat grainy photo the Officer on the tank has what may be a Kepi -therefore it is French.

Running fine at the moment 14.45 http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/ Steve

the tank is a schneider CA1 6 were used post war 1 in Spain, although the building don't look particularly Spanish some of the uniforms could be esp the guy facing the camera. Spain had some CA1 and were used in Spanish Morroco in the 1920s they were still in use in 1936 and divided 4 by the republican and 2 by the Nationalists.

It's another M41 turret facing 12 o clock

It certainly would be interesting to see a porpoise as it is a rather forgotten piece of amphibious warfare history- there were 2 types used on D.Day narrow and wide, but there use dates back to dieppe where "re-supply sledges" were used -or at least an attempt was made to use them on Churchills but most if not all were left in the LCT as they snagged and broke their cables. As to the story that the tanks were on their last legs when supplied -true to an extent -the original plan was to supply rolling hulls without motors and these were to be lashed in LCTs to be used as support guns -similar to the towed 105mm guns used by the US Army- with the added advantage of full crew protection. -it was then decided to use them with motors in the hope that they could be used ashore releasing the LCts for other duties-(although the crews were Royal Marine Garrision Artillery they still tended toward the Marine ethos of adventure) so although tired the tanks were maintained -they were also a couple of Sherman Mk1 command and control tanks included in the battle plan -these also landed. As to the "they were used 'til they ran out juice" -they were only to be used for the intital assault as the crews were not integrated into the RAC/RTR order of battle - probably ammunition resupply would have been more of a problem than fuel . It would be interesting to see these vehicles on land where they belong -I can't see the harm assuming there was no loss of life -so they aren't classed as War Graves - although in the long term who will look after them? -things are finacially tight at the moment and likely to become worse. Steve

First one is an M41 the second photo of an APC is an M113 with the M41 in the trees to the left

Probably :-( I could have considered taking a punt on it assuming the price was realistic -it's about the only tracked vehicle that I could accomodate and with relatively simple structure it might have been a nice little project as I get older- it's especially relevant as the factory that produced it is about a km down the road. But when they start using terms like A) its probably not unique I've seen a photo of a vickers marked version before B) the chances of it being a ex BEF rather than a Belgian version are minimal and of course C) lets stick the price sky high its got a Nazi connection:shocked:. so I'm sure we'll see it with WH licence plate before long:argh: Steve

Don't worry mate I'll be sitting on the naughty step for sometime too:D Steve

The Tank in question is shaver T32045 B sqdn 43btn RTR the reason it has the presentation plate Thorncliffe is that it was built by Newton Chambers Sheffield at the Thorncliffe Park Plant it should be the 50th tank built of the Ist batch of 75 -Ist tank T31996. 43btn RTR was a training rgt in WW2 and survived into Post war service as a TA Btn in Newcastle using Comets and Cents. Its memorial is situated at St. Thomas' Church -St Marys' Place Ncle -the Drill hall is now a car park:(. Another 43rd Btn RTR Churchill from the same reel of film is Samson T31854 a Birmingham Carriage Co. tank. Alastair will no doubt recognise the rear cover photo of the book he mentioned. Steve

Your lucky I had to look for the Wheels and Tracks 15 centre spread -not that I had any doubt in what you said -brain has been in idle mode for the last week or so- number of BrainF**** increasing exponentialy. Steve

Yes of course they are, the mount in Alecto is like a minature version of an 17pdr Valentine -not the front mounted mantlet as in the tanks.:blush:

You're right Jane was the son of a Vicar and was a politian illistrator and author. Steve

Yes but its strange that the Alecto 95mm SPG didn't have one. I did a essay on armour in Focus Churchill tank on the 95mm gun which might be of interest to you Steve

Debatable - the 95mm howitzer was designed to go on any mount that could take a 6pdr -in the churchill it proved impossible to get it to work without altering the turret front -which delayed production. -Mk5 became a universal design for 95mm, 6pdr and 75mm but the 95mm could not retro-fit in a standard Mk4 or a Mk3 turret- and the Mk8 was an entirely different type of turret from the mk7. As a towed weapon it was to replace the old 3.7in mountain howitzer of 1915. It was fitted to a 6pdr A/T gun slide on the Steven Carriage -which was like a lightweight 25pdr carriage, but it was a total failure and the production run was scrapped. The guns themselves were varied the Mk1 and Mk4 was the tank version with fixed ammunition. The mk2 (towed equipment) was separate loading. The Mk3 may have been the result of a need to mop up the unused towed equipment components was used in the Alecto 95mm SPG it had the same tube length as the tank gun but used the separate charge ammunition of the towed weapon. As to whether it worked in a tank - dispersion was often a problem -NIH in Italy loved them in Churchills but in NWE there was some concern about them to the extent that some Cromwell units used them almost exclusively for smoke rounds -relying heavily on the Besa for offensive use. By the end of WW2 the Tank board were talking of going American with the 105mm howitzer M4 for future designs. Although with the end of the war in sight the tank regiments still using Cromwell and Comets had to suck it up -as nothing new would be forthcoming -British or American. Steve