fv1609

Yes ok Ted that would be good to have thank you, then I'll see how it tallies with various lists I've accumulated & let you know. In the past I have been underwhelmed by the limited amount of web based info on BSCs.

I think there is a Generator Panel No.1 ie has a single speed 12-amp dynamo which would mean it was a FV1611 ie APC role (yes I know people will argue that its not a real APC but it is for practical purposes as opposed to FFW role) It has no winch so it is a FV1611(A). Try to find the engine serial no, not easy as the side plate has been removed in this picture, you may need a mirror. Just a close up of the profile of any part of this vertical joining piece. Should be FV16 or 16 & below a 1 or 2 digit number on the face of the barrel.. The crucial thing here is the 5-digit serial number on the top line. ERM should be the there but that can be deduced from the S/N.

Wayne, it is definitely a Mk 1. It has no barricade ram as you say. 99% of Mk 2s had them but not all. However I used to have a Mk 1 with a ram & there is one your way with one still fitted! I'm preparing some labels for your pictures of where to photo. So don't go to bed yet.

Wayne, ok I can see the driver's back rest but does it have a thick vinyl cushion? The passenger's seat is just an 'orrible frame with canvas seat & back. It is non-adjustable, rather higher because of the batteries, it is clearly uncomfortable for the bottom & uncomfortable to the head (limited clearance to roof) & not befitting commander who has to sit in it. I can give you a new seat canvas & possible an old canvas back rest. Did you take any pictures of the chassis, engine or cab plates? The cab one will determine if it was made by Sankey or ROF Nottingham or ROF Woolich. I think Alison meant it is early in the sense that it is a Mk 1. The ERM & cab plate will determine its age. It could be an early chassis & late body or the other way round. If you don't have pictures of the plates. Do you have any pictures of the sides to the rear of the side doors or the catches on the pistol ports, that can indicate who made it. Yes the engine bay is locked with 2 square holed locker catches on each side. Good that you can get the metal work cut, at least there are no fancy round bits like on a GS. Not to worry if you have no more photos. I'll take some for my own nosiness & it could be used as independent verification if the need arises.

Wayne. I'm glad you posted up those pics as I have not seen it yet. When I was last at Jims he was away & it hadn't been recovered to his place. Apparently a couple of pics have been found with Dale in it when he first got it, which I am looking forward to seeing. I'm going up to Dales place on Sat & I think I will call in on Jim's & take some pics of the chassis plate, if that is missing I'll cross relate that to the engine number to try to identify it. Then I can give you some history as I have quite a few records here. I don't know if it was ever road registered so if I can help verify its identity that will make age registration easier. The number of the ignition key is on the barrel. Over the the key hole it should be stamped with something like FV16 or just 16 & then below the hole the number for the key. From what I can see there is no passenger seat canvas, we need to fix you up with one of those. Is there a driver's seat cushion? If not I will withdraw one of the last few from sale & put that in. Also I have some headlight guards which need to go with it. But it looks pretty complete & a nice project. I'm feeling envious of the thrill of the new acquisition!

Yes Ted that seems an extraordinary error, that a green shade was given a grey prefix. Amazingly it wasn't corrected until 1988! Less obvious corrections at that time were: 360 became 460 Deep buff 368 became 568 Apricot 410 became 320 Light brown 437 became 337 Very dark drab 450 became 350 Dark earth

No difference really. If you are going to get brand new ones, which I would recommend, you'll need just take it along to get measured up for a modern equivalent.

Ted, yes I realise I should have really said that 1980 was the date that IRR NATO Green was officially accepted into general usage. You are right, obviously before this period it would be in use by some units before it could be accepted into general usage. Of course a key factor with paint is it ageing properties & I appreciate that would take time! I understand what you mean with GW1 & GW2, There was no time for such niceities, techniques had to be made up as you went along & you had to get on with it quickly! I have a COSA Sect H1(a) dated Nov.1980, this obviously lists IRR NATO Green. It would be nice to have some earlier editions to define the point when it became an item of supply. Although of course there would be a period before this when some units were using it prior to general acceptance. Thinking to the stage before that, I have never found any documents to define when DBG was superseded by OD. I assume the precedance to this change would have been for ‘teeth units’. The earliest photographic sighting I have is probably 1968 with a Hornet of Para Sqn RAC painted OD with disruptive black. That would have certainly been a priority unit for the change. As for BSC, the biggest change in the period you’re interested in was 1964 when the definition changed from “Colours for ready mixed paints” to “Colours for specific purposes” & these new colours were introduced: 109 Middle blue 111 Pale blue 112 Arctic blue 113 Deep saxe blue 210 Sky 228 Emerald green 310 Primrose (was 354) 366 Light beige 367 Manila 369 Biscuit 435 Camouflage red 436 Dark camouflage brown 437 Very dark drab 447 Salmon pink (was 443) 450 Dark earth 452 Dark crimson 453 Shell pink 592 International orange 636 PRU blue 637 Medium sea grey 638 Dark sea grey 639 Light slate grey 640 Extra dark sea grey 641 Dark green 642 Night I think there were nearly as many deletions! So I’ll try to dig those out.

....and don't think that using it in a tractor makes you immune from prosecution. I remember one year at Great Dorset Steam Fair that HMRC were dipping the tanks of many vehicles coming into the showground. This obviously was to catch out those that use it in their diesel cars. They were also dipping tanks of tractors that under normal circumstances could use it legitimately. But a steam fair is not an agricultural purpose not even in a ploughing match it seems!

My reluctant conclusion that IRR NATO Green was introduced as late as that was based on the following: DEFSTAN 00-23 covering the IRR requirements for painting military equipment was published in October 1980. This was Issue 1. Materiel Regulations Army Code No.60503 (PAM 3) introduces the concept of using IRR NATO Green for the painting of vehicles & technical equipment & was published in Dec 1980. NATO Green was only added as a British Standard Colour for " identification, coding and special purposes" in 1980 as BSC 285.

Wayne, yes he has your items.

Richard, you must be right then, I wasn't there (I'm far too young:D). But did this apply to both Ferrets & Saracens? I was surprised when I read the EMER that no time had been quoted. But I see I was reading from the Saracen EMER, most of my Ferret ones are in fiche.

Wayne I'm sure it could be done but I'm not sure why you would want to do this as it would destroy the originality & character of the Rover. It is always a delight to see a Rover with a 40 amp system in place, still connected & actually working. The vast majority that I see have been converted down to 12 volts although some retain the selenium rectifier for display purposes. The date of introduction of the 40 amp system looks to be April 1961 when GS Rovers Mk 3 & Mk 5 were converted to FFW role. Anyway haven't you got enough on your plate with the forthcoming additions?

I've no idea, but I think the demands of the vehicle & radios already far exceeded the available 25 amp output. Just consider the time taken to recharge the batteries having boiled up for a cup of tea! The other factor might have be the reliabilty of the alternator system & there may have be less radio interference. A small factor may have been that although the alternator is giving more output it has less torque than the 2-speed dynamo. You can judge this by turning the alternator fairly easily by hand but the dynamo is very stiff to rotate, that is all extra load for the engine to provide. The official reason is given as "to improve operational performance" which could include all of the above. It was not an immediate modification but to be done only during a Base Overhaul. The EMER was suspended in 1983.

Correct. Although there was an upgrade for Saladin to fit a 75 amp dynamo it was quite a lot larger & the further limitation was the carbon pile regulator to control the field winding. That was as about as big as a vehicle dynamo could get in practical terms. Until the advent of silicon diodes, alternators in AFVs were not practical. The 24v AC system introduced into Land Rovers in 1961 was originally limited to 40 amps as the only solid state rectifiers at the time were selenium. These performed reliably only if the temperature was kept below 80 deg C. Cooling was achieved by cooling fins on the rectifier which had to be mounted in a flow of cool air, this was not practical in an AFV. Silicon diodes changed all this, not only are they smaller & more efficient but they can withstand temperatures of up to 200 deg C & in some systems were oil cooled. There was an EMER issued in 1978 to replace the Gen No.2 (ie 2-speed 25 amp dynamo) with Gen No.10 (ie the 90 amp alternator) which is what happened to your Ferret. The programme was later abandoned due to the shortage of components.

Arjan, there are some British & Indian Pattern tents here: http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/TENTS2.pdf If you can identify yours I can find the instructions.

Don't know the sort of years you were aiming for, but IRR NATO Green was not introduced until 1980 which is a lot later than one might imagine. Prior to this, for a camo paint it was Olive Drab.

25 amps

Yes we live & learn!

Yes I once got badly caught on the motorway suddenly when it went into overheat. I pulled in & walked to the nearest service area. They had no petrol cans there that I could fill with water. I managed to borrow a watering can & a bucket & proceeded on my return journey a mile up the motorway. Needless to say it wasn't long before I got apprehended for behaving in a very stupid way on the motorway. After the error of my way was pointed out to me. I was given a lift back to the Humber. As it happens I had been returning from a private function at Police HQ & this crew had earlier been playing in the band there. So they were familiar with the vehicle. Anyway, by now the radiator had cooled sufficiently to top it up with this hard won water. To my surprise I found I was not shortage of water at all. It was at this point I got my multimeter out & I soon learnt that an open circuit temp sensor equals maximum temperature reading!

I'm not sure that you actually need 3 belts. All in service installations I have seen used just 2 although there is clearly provision for 3, quite why I am not sure. Hornet actually had 5 belts but that was a bit different. In my list of civilian equivalents I have built up over the years I have down: Ferodo V250D I note that I fitted Fenner AI200/A46 13x1168LI to Hornet 15 years ago. When I went to these people, http://www.eriks.co.uk/belts/ these numbers meant nothing to the girl srving me. You will see they have branches all over the place. So I went back with a NOS belt & a pulley to get measured up. There was no direct modern equivalent anymore. But they could provide one about 5mm shorter or 10mm longer. I opted for a pair of the longer ones (C1350-FEN). They had to be ordered but arrived the next day. You need to watch the pricing structure as they are £35.47 + VAT each. I was lucky to achieve a 65% discount & the pair cost me £29.18 all in. Although slightly longer, fitting was a bit easier & there is still plenty of spare adjustment. I know someone who has fitted 3 belts to his Humber & ordered them through a tractor spares company (Baker & daughters) the numbers he used were: C1308 LD/22X250 L1 C49 Optibelt VB

I would say the change was 1963-64. Hornets produced in 1962-3 had the old type but there were two Saracen EMERs issued in April & June 1964 that refer to "the new type of fire extinguisher". The bracket you have for the newer one is an early one with the all metal clasp. This gave rise to problems in that it could be assembled incorrectly using excessive force & as a result the clasp could no longer be released by hand. An EMER was issued in 1969 that required a small rod to be brazed onto the hasp to prevent incorrect assembly. This was overcome by the later bracket with a webbing pull to the hasp.

Paul I would very carefully dismantle the right angled connector that goes into the sensor & check that the wires that are soldered onto the 2-pin connector are still intact. Check the resistance of the sensor directly on its terminals.

Consider fitting brand new ones not NOS ones. On a run with hills the Pig would usually creep into 190 F. Having fitted brand new ones it doesn't go above 180 F.

At "room" temperature its about 200 ohms. Did you just want a ball park figure? Not sure if there is a defined resistance/temperature corelation published. It either is about that resistance or if it goes open circuit the temperature needle goes right up the very hot end.