Bilbo42 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Hi to all. This is a continuation of my previous post. We got to talking about whether or not my 1974 Ltwt FFR had ever even had a radio kit in it so I took some quick pictures. I apologize for the quality. I had to climb under the tarp and shoot with a flash. The holes: One picture is of four holes in the cargo bed side wall (I'm not sure of its real name) just aft of the shunt box on the left side of the vehicle. I assume these are for an antenna of some sort? Next is a pic of the top of the right side wheel well in the cargo area just aft of the generator panel. I assumed these were for the radio operator's seat, but the way I look at what ruxy posted on the last thread, they may be too far foward for that seat. The next two pictures are of the right front fender showing holes I assume for TUUM box, antenna cable box and I don't know what else. Remember ths was in service from 1974 to 1997! The next is of the left fender showing my TUUM and the same other holes as the right fender. Any thoughts? Bil P.S. I don't know why but when I did Preview maybe only two pictures actually came up but it looks like you can click on the other three. 5 total. Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 They came up but a little out of order. I think you can follow them this way. Sorry. Me and computers Agggggggg! bil :0( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Holes in tub rear - most + don't know. The holes in the upper body side - a 109" FFR side mout antenna bracket could have been fitted , advise of hole centres - I have some around somewhere , so should be able to confirm. ------------------------- Front wing - truck your age would probably have had Larkspur , this shows the tuner box & antenna mount , yes the rear was open to the elements (you have drivers view). I don't know why anybody needs to open out such a large mounting bolt hole, the wing is double skinned to reinforce and is pre-drilled on under skin - ready to drill open out & file dress. A Larkspur tuner would have a universal surface mount "adaptable box" - no known Rover no. they are on a FV No., I have seen a large (common) and smaller - this is for lead stowage. Smaller & neater than Clansman From 1979 - this was tidied up with a box built in under the wing with a spade shaped access lid :- Ignore the crunch !! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 You could have had both Larkspur and Clansman tuner boxes mounted over the very long length of service, account the small holes in your front wings for the lead stowage boxes. I have a small box handy somewhere but don't think I have the larger size FV box. The other hole of course would be for the long stem wing mirror that yours would have left Solihull with :- GS. 19 FM 65 ( I obtained it from Ruddington in 1980 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airportable Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Hi Bil, if your Landi had radios in, it was more than likley all fitted on the 'unitary radio station' which I understand would leave no holes etc in the rear tub. See Mark Cook's book pg.83. But I have never seen the hole footprint if a PRC350 was fitted to a wing. My 1980 Landi has Antenna cable's for both Clansman and Larkspur. I could take pics for both tomorrow if of any intrest. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 The holes in the side wall that I showed just aft of the shunt box look strangely familiar to these. On the Dutch lightweigth it would be the foward most location right behind the guy's arm. If there was an antenna mounted like that on mine where my holes are what would it have been for as opposed to using the unitary radio station. For a manpack unit? And would my ltwt have had a TUUM and antenna cable box mounted on BOTH wings (where existing the wing holes are) if there had never been a unitary in the back. In other words, Did they put Tuums and antenna boxes on all FFRs just in case they received the unitary? !! Also, seems that the holes in the top of the fender well are too for foward to be for the unitary radio operator's seat according to the drawing ruxy provided and some photos I have seen.It looked like the guy sat with his left forearm just about on the tailgate instead of more forward?Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) You can't compare any Dutch Rover against a British FFR Apples/Oranges. I think British FFR front wings left Solihull pre-wired according to era. for Tuners - up to inner wings , this is not so easy to determine on Parts Lists for harness , as said previously - it was a bit messy in this area until the later wings with spade lid terminal box covers appeared. ------------- What they did do was use a GP Dexion kit :- This is a earlier S2A era kit . I suspect somebody took Item 36 Stanchion and hacksawed off the crank , drilled 2 extra holes in and bolted it on the upper body side. Not a good idea because a FFR 2A Mk. 8,10 88" or 9,11 109" had heavy reinforcement steels in behind the rear wings from when it left Solihull. However ISTR having seen it done ! It was done when a hard-top was fitted but probably a special kit intended for hard-top mounting. The clue for Dexion kit use in a Lightweight is the later Dexion S3 kit , this has a mounting bracket looking like a bit of angle iron with 4 qty. bolt holes drilled in (you find these left bolted on the galv. capping rails). They have a long part number branded on and these have defo. been traced back to the kit (this gives a pukka mounting for Diagonal brace Item No. 40 on diagram.. You do find holes and often they are never identified (actually I tried toavoid bodywork with extra holes - other than a good truck that had VPK at some stage), Probably the most rare of CES kit to find on a Lightweight is this tube in the terry clips :- That is the rear grab rail - for the brave !!! ===================================== Your holes are in the main so unusual - I doubt you will ever determine what was fitted (esp. the tub) , ---- these are my mystery holes , I lifted a centre seat base and found this extra ally plate bolted down. It is a KB GS. that it was fitted with VPK , history shows the VPK was fitted but then held in NI reserve. At the time I pondered on mounting frame for Manpack - but I now have one and don't think so. The 4 qty. holes are not for a winterized heat exchanger that would be fitted on a similar extra plate. Being VPK - I now suspect some sort of culvert mine detection , possibly the cab side of Claribel radar bullet detection ??? Edited November 7, 2010 by ruxy crap spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 It took me a while to figure out what "hacksawed off the crank" meant but I got it now. They just cut off the top bend and drilled 2 new holes to fit. Yea, I think that would make that idea work. But again, why put an antenna on if not for a radio. Are you saying it was some other setup than the unitary...could not have been the entire Dextron kit..I don't have enough holes. ?? Wow to the grab bar..I don't even remember seeing them in pictures but I have heard them talked about. Great pictures and thoughs and thanks again for everyone's time to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 The two holes drilled through the galv. top capping would probably stiffen the bracket up sufficient for antenna mount.. On a civvy bodyside it is only the alloy panel - that is why the military spec. tubs have reinforcement steels affixed along the insides (also often caused dissimilar metal corrosion to alloy panels).. If they used a standard Dexion kit on a Lightweight and required rear mounted antenna - then they would just mount the sliders off a Unitary Kit and use packers to position for the tilt (this is what many M.V. Collectors do now to keep the tub space free). A support like this could also be used to mount a beacon (as often was / is the case). I suppose it depends on what limited role radio TX & RX they were using , a modified bracket like that would be more than adequate for a Manpack remote aerial.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 OK, we are kind of getting into an area here that I wanted to explore. If...Big if... it were used in 212 Battery RA (V)for...whatever purpose...and it was fitted with a remote aerial similiar to the configuration on the side of the tub as we have been talking , what type of manpack radio may have been in it in the era that I want to portray..say 1974-1980ish? I know that I can never afford the unitary radio "cage" with all its kit but I may be able to afford the man pack radio + shipping (Ahggggg!!!!) And how would or for what purpose would the manpack be used in the 212 Battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 BTW, I can't remember if I posted a recent picture of 13 FM 51 or not. I have to run out for a "wee bit" (how was that) and don't have time to look back over recent posts. At an airshow in my town last weekend! Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 This is the starting point :- http://www.militaryrover.co.uk/'>http://www.militaryrover.co.uk/'>http://www.militaryrover.co.uk/ After that - you need to read up where others have offered assistance , I am lagging behind. I am doing a Unitary a unitary kit with Clansman (plenty dumped on market just now but prices can be high or low for same stuff). I am also doing a unitary for a earlier truck - so it will be Larkspur. Again a area I have neglected , collected all the misc. stuff but no radio - I need to swot up. Check out here :- http://www.militaryrover.co.uk/ http://www.land-rover-lightweight.co.uk/Clansman.html -------------- johnhughes from NI has done a lot of beginners guides on Ex-MLRA , read all up and by others - after that you can only come to HMVF and ask specific questions .. http://forum.emlra.org/viewtopic.php?t=6313&highlight=idiots+guide http://forum.emlra.org/viewtopic.php?t=6542 Larkspur will not be so easy , more so where you live.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Well, I spent the day learning as much as one can learn about British radios in a short period of time....your references as well as some that I have downloaded over the past couple of years. BTW, I saw some great pictures of some fantastic rigs today. Thanks for the sources. As we say in American football, I think I am going to have to punt on the radios. Too many peices and too much weight. And if it is one thing that I have learned from collecting American radios and field telephones is that shipping cost nearly as much as the units! Can you imagine shipping across the pond! Maybe in another lifetime when I am rich and famous. I gues I will just stick to getting more authentic tires, a new canvas top, etc. Thanks for all the ideas. Best wishes, Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Sorry Bill - don't agree (but I don't know a lot). Right now you can do a FFR with a fair bit of basic kit around the Manpack - cheap due to it being dumped on the market , if I am off on pricing - somebody please correct me as several months since I first checked out. For instance - I purchased this here (and it is real quality construction and brand spanking new) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Military-Army-Clansman-carrier-adapter-plate-PRC351-/360267378652?pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Telephony_SM&hash=item53e19befdc And then found it on eBay being sold with the frame (on previous pic) - both together for about the same price. From what I understand a good working Clansman Manpak is under £200 (sometimes £100) - display non-functional - £40 to £50. ------------ In US - factories / warehouses must use grey slotted Dexion (as the common UK manuf. is called) stuff by the million miles - and you don't have any rivet counter nit-pickers who know better on minor details. You can get a pair of sliders for rear antenna for about £15 on eBay. To fill the Dexion there are a few cheaper items such as chargers and of course the boxy switch thingy for the tuners, can look quite impressive at low shipping cost too because nothing big. ======================= The other alternative - - but I don't know the full details (somebody may provide a photograph) is fitting of the ManPack frame in the cab centre seat position. There will be a bit of variation on this depending on Shunt/ammeter position etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airportable Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Hi Bil. Yes we are very lucky here in GB if into Clansman radio gear. My words at Malvern yesterday 'Why is military stuff so heavy' as I carried yet another radio to car. I would not give up on your intrest in radio kit. Just a thought ,have you considered collecting any of the Clansman users handbooks etc. many quite thin publications but would be intresting at the shows you do (would have thought not too bad postage, but check that importing is ok) to show intrested parties kit fitted. On the radio front the lightest vehicle mounted one I know of is the PRC350 and mounting plate. Not really a FFR bit of kit, but was usually mounted on top of the front wings of Landie's. Couple of pic's of mine. Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airportable Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 WEIGHTS, RT-351 radio.........2.7kg (that is the trans/reciever only) 1 Ah battery.........1.30kg 3.3Ah battery........3.35Kg (the usual one fitted) Carring frame and adapter....3.1kg Frame that bolts to dexion that the adapter/frame clip to (see ruxy pic.) Dont have weight to hand. My advice before getting any radio kit is get hold of the users hand books. They can save you a load of cash. They also list main weights of the kit. Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 http://forum.emlra.org/garage.php?mode=view_gallery_item&type=garage_gallery&image_id=819 Typical beacon mount (truck belonged to bobbyboy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Typical hard-top with antenna mount , photograph when in service (mount like this - but not so common) .. 51 HG 05 , truck now in ownership of Shatters. (note also slave start socket on front panel) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Now I might be able to afford the becon mount plus shipping!!:0) I have not punted yet on the radio idea. I have several working US radios so I am not committed to it having to work. When I ordered my TUMM box from England several years ago, the guy asked if I wanted the guts and I said, no" make it as lighht as possible as long as it looks the same from the outside. I could do something like that again. If you hear of someone with a non=working display, please keep me in the loop. Still thinking.....Regards, Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 (edited) That one is in fact not modified to a beacon mount (this type of side beacon mount is always a DIY conversion of a antenna mount , sometimes two flange joined or cut-N-shut with addl. tube) - it is in fact a pukka antenna mount with the rubber aerial mount in situ. I have a Ex-RMP truck and the antenna mount was a length of 1" x 1" angle iron with two fixing holes drilled through the galv. screen frame at passenger side (very, very common with RMP blue lamps) ... ISTR the truck (amd. owned by Shatters) was Ex-RAF and winterized .. Edited November 8, 2010 by ruxy amd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Well, I went to ebay just for the heck of it. Nothing Clansman in the US.. I was hoping someone was getting rid of one over here. No luck. For the record, there is one on ebay uk http://cgi.ebay.com/CLANSMAN-351-PATROL-RADIO-HAM-PLUS-EXTRAS-ARMY-SURPLUS-/150502291517?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item230aa2b83d $169 GBP and 69 GBP shipping . Not saying it is the one I would get, but just for talking. That's abot $390 US to me. I'm sure they come up cheaper and you guys may know of a discount dealer, but I would guess with the accessories for the PRC351 , ie, the other stufff necessary for display, it may be about $1000US shipped. It would be great though to have it for the vehicle. Question: is there a mount that didn't use the Dextron behind the driver. Bolted to the wheel well like ours often were and that didn't use the skide out arms...maybe used the antenna mount that went in my 4 holes? Just an idea. Thanks, Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 The actual rubber aerial mounts - for different marks - look at C&S TaT Sales. ( prefer the later big multi-wing nut to the earlier wing bolt collet type.. When I grabbed this pic . it stated UN Civilian Police , you can see - as many DIY mounts as there are blue beacons ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Well, I went to ebay just for the heck of it. Nothing Clansman in the US.. I was hoping someone was getting rid of one over here. No luck. For the record, there is one on ebay uk http://cgi.ebay.com/CLANSMAN-351-PATROL-RADIO-HAM-PLUS-EXTRAS-ARMY-SURPLUS-/150502291517?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item230aa2b83d $169 GBP and 69 GBP shipping . Not saying it is the one I would get, but just for talking. That's abot $390 US to me. I'm sure they come up cheaper and you guys may know of a discount dealer, but I would guess with the accessories for the PRC351 , ie, the other stufff necessary for display, it may be about $1000US shipped. It would be great though to have it for the vehicle. Question: is there a mount that didn't use the Dextron behind the driver. Bolted to the wheel well like ours often were and that didn't use the skide out arms...maybe used the antenna mount that went in my 4 holes? Just an idea. Thanks, Bil Don't forget UK sellers now need an export licence for any Military Equipment & may be reluctant to sell oversea's.. make sure the export licence is in place before parting with your cash or your kit may not make it out of the country.. https://www.spire.bis.gov.uk/eng/fox/espire/LOGIN/login Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo42 Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 OK. Good advice. I will remember that. Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rover8FFR Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 On ebay now for 351/352 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLANSMAN-MILITARY-RADIO-LAND-ROVER-CLIP-BRACKET-/140475192349?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item20b4f9541d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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