question Humber FV1611a Turn Signal Switch Assistance Please

[Rover8FFR]

Hi All

 

I have a query that I am hoping will lead to a few snap shots from you all, as to what you have fitted in your Pig.

 

In my User Manual it refers to the above as No.2, Mk I - FV260925, which is as per the attached image..

 

 

This then suggests that the switch lever is the type that fits on the hexagonal shaft with the plunger locator key like the attached, albeit the wrong shape as this one has two wings not one.

 

 

I have seen images of Pigs, and even using Clive's as an example they have the slim pointed lever alike the classic Smiths one that has the screw on captive nut arrangement.

 

 

I am therefore looking for images as to what you have on your Pig for comparisons.

 

 

Of course if there is a similar detail on other B series vehicles that use this switch assembly then please chip in.

 

Cheers

[fv1609]

Wayne yes & that is what it says in the ISPL Army Code No.12815

 

But there was a change. There are printed & CD copies of this around but they do not include 12815-3.

 

This was Amendment No.3 Oct 1963 & it changed to :

 

LV6/MT4/LU/34486A Switch, turn signal, No.2 Mk 2 FV494505

[Rover8FFR]

Wayne yes & that is what it says in the ISPL Army Code No.12815

 

But there was a change. There are printed & CD copies of this around but they do not include 12815-3.

 

This was Amendment No.3 Oct 1963 & it changed to :

 

LV6/MT4/LU/34486A Switch, turn signal, No.2 Mk 2 FV494505

 

I see. But I suspect that the switch only changed if it was replaced. Is that correct?

 

I have a CD of the parts manuals etc that I got off eBay, but for the life of me I have misplaced it and was hoping some nice chap(s) could help me from the forum about this.

 

My User Manual is 12246.

 

I have just tried a search on the No.2 Mk II and it returned nothing, so suspect I am going to modify the alloy switch lever to have a point or perhaps see if I can tap the shaft to take the Smiths lever.

 

I don't want to wreck the pristine No.2 Mk I switch assembly though.

 

If other owners can share images of their switch arrangements I will make a more informed decision about which to do.

 

It's a toggle switch at the minute and that won't be staying long term.

 

I am looking at the wiring next. Hence the function tests and switches etc.

 

Thanks

[fv1609]

Wayne you really need the correct knob for the Mk 1 switch. Both these types were fitted.

 

 

As you know drivers found it hard to realise the direction of turn was the reciprocal of the lower paddle. It was a little bit clearer with the pointed knob though. When the switch was moved lower down it allowed the knob to be mounted upside down. But of course the 'plastic' one needed cutting as can be seen here.

 

I went to the trouble of moving my turn switch back to its original position & filling in the new hole. As my vehicle depicts an era before this modification that was issued in July 1963.

[Rover8FFR]

I have a further question and thanks for those images.

 

Are both those switches No.2 Mk 1 but with the early and later levers.

 

The chromed lever is different to a Smiths type lever on the control pack and I assume push on and not captive screw retained.

 

at least I have two scenarios to use as examples.

 

Thanks Clive and I must find my CD parts manual to assist me further.

[fv1609]

Are both those switches No.2 Mk 1 but with the early and later levers.

Yes I think so. Unless it is the knob that decided its Mk?

 

I'm not sure what a Mk 2 looks like. Mine pre-dates Mk 1 as it was built in 1956 there was no Parts List other than the 1952 Parts List for the CT Truck & even that had no turn indicators. So perhaps mine is the No.1?

 

I intend to make up a spare switch with cables to have it in reserve. I can't remember what terminations there are on my switch which is more complicated than a normal turn switch. When the Army took it over they destroyed some of the original wiring. My turn lights were designed also to be my stop lights which take priority over turn indication. I achieved it with 6 diodes & a relay. But I have since realised it could be achieved with 9 diodes & no relay.

 

The chromed lever is different to a Smiths type lever on the control pack and I assume push on and not captive screw retained.

Its both, without the grub screw it allows the tensioned ball in the shaft to engage. But a grub screw could be used on non-sprung shafts.

 

I must find my CD parts manual to assist me further.

It doesn't have any amendments though. But I don't think you should be aiming to use a Smiths pointer with the nut & thread in the axis of the narrower shaft as on mine as that would be pre-date the build of your Pig. Although MERLIN seems to think all Pigs were built in 1954 Grrh! So we get all these showground entries with people believing their Pig was built in 1954 :nono:

[Rover8FFR]

Thanks Clive

the Nos switch I have was in rear locker so suspect Dale acquired?

 

it has wired connections on already so let me know if you need pics as they are all labelled

 

cheers

[Rover8FFR]

Well I modified the original switch lever in between other bits this weekend to make something a little more realistic until I find that elusive original item

 

 

[Rover8FFR]

Modified a bit more now to look a little more convincing thanks to some help

 

 

 

[fv1609]

The question is Wayne which way up are you going to mount it?

 

With the little pointy bit uppermost (I think you need to make it a little more pointy) so that it points in the direction of the turn or put it upside down so a less accomplished driver can assume the paddle at the opposite is the pointer for the direction?

 

That will depend on where you want the hole to be. The original position was higher than the later position. The change took place from July 1963.

 

BTW you don't happen to have a picture of the rear wheel arches showing the cable for the rear lights crossing into the rear locker. On one side I have an armoured channel but not on the other side. I suspect the cable was au naturelle & the cover a NI embellishment.

[Rover8FFR]

I will have pointy end uppermost as more accurate! I can add some letraset characters for L and R

 

Regarding the cabling in lockers. All my lockers were rotten but I am correct in saying the cables were in the metal sheathing only and held in place with P clips.

 

This is based upon traces of thin metal attached to clips around braided sheathing. The sheathing is still in place. Albeit cabling is now loose and dangling.

 

I suspect any metal conduit would be from the legacy of a MkII Bracelet upgrade if your 1609 went that far in her previous life?

 

I hope that assists.

[fv1609]

Wayne ok on the conduit situation as I suspected.

 

I wouldn't bother with the letraset, wasn't originally there as it was intuitive, well meant to be!

 

Your switch hole I see has not been modified & is in the original upper position.

[Rover8FFR]

Wayne ok on the conduit situation as I suspected.

 

I wouldn't bother with the letraset, wasn't originally there as it was intuitive, well meant to be!

 

Your switch hole I see has not been modified & is in the original upper position.

 

Original wherever possible, practical and affordable will be my ethos with my Piggy.

 

Anything is better than the toggle switch currently in place.

 

I checked my archives for the hole position too earlier

[Rover8FFR]

Clive

 

Just checking that what I read is correct in user manual and EMER 252 Wheeled Vehicles.

 

Whilst all the head and side/ tail light bulbs are rated as 24 / 28volts

 

The indicators are 12v due to a relay? Is that totally correct and why do that?

 

Thanks

[fv1609]

Wayne it is indeed a curious system. The FV1609 had a 24v flasher & it had to be 24v because the flasher function was shared with the 24v stop light.

 

Then the production FV1611 Pigs came along with 12v flashers!

 

The stop/turn lights in the FV1909 are 10w each, so per side the flasher has to switch 20w.

 

But the turn lights on the FV1611 are 21w each, so per side the flasher has to switch 42w.

 

So when the design was finalised in 1959 perhaps there were not resilient enough flashers around? But they side stepped that issue by having a flasher to drive a relay that does the heavy duty switching! The resistors around the flasher are to provide a load to cause flasher to heat up & function in lieu of a direct connection to bulbs.

 

This seems odd because a bulb rated at say 12v 21w will draw twice the current of a 24v 21w bulb.

 

The Hornet used this system as well. It was a pain towing the cipher trailer although I used either the Wolf or Hornet both were 24v but with the Hornet I had to change the trailer turn lights to 12v. Yes & often forgot to change them back again! But should a Hornet being towing a trailer? Well it had a NATO hitch!

 

However Pigs in the NI experience seem to revert to 24v turn lights. I know that because my old Pig had 24v flashers & the current Pig that got the Mk 2 mods had 24v.

 

I can find no EMER instructing a change but I suspect it was a LOCAL E&MEI N IRELAND. I have very few of these because they are by definition of limited circulation & generally are required to be destroyed after a year.

 

The 24v flasher conversion would not have been exclusively a Mk 2 conversion as my old Pig was a Mk 1. It must have been a widespread conversion because I have an EMER dated June 1978 specifying a replacement for the turn light warning light & that was a direct electrical swap & it was rated at 24v.

 

So a good question Wayne & good that you are doing your EMER research. But it is something I have also wondered about for some while