eddy8men Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 hi folks the time has come to start thinking about the finishing touches to the cromwell interior and the comms setup is a big part of that. i'd like to put an original 19 set and working intercom back in but i don't have the faintest idea of what boxes i need and where they all go, so if anyone could shed a little light on the comms layout i'd be very grateful. cheers rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Rick, are you familiar with this image below? Also, I think Toadman has posted some internal shots of the Cromwell at the Jacques Littlefield collection some of which show pics of the various parts of this schematic. I'll have a shufti's and see if I can't find a link to them. Edited March 4, 2013 by Old Git added more info re toadmans pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Toadman's pics are here mate.. http://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/cromwell.htm I'll got through my refs in a minute to see if I have more info for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ozs Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Rick The WS19 yahoo group and the related web site www.royalsignals.org.uk are the best source of free information and manuals regarding the WS19 (and many other wireless sets of similar vintage). One of the moderators is a member here and I am sure he will introduce himself (and maybe recommend which document to download) in due course Regards Iain Edited March 4, 2013 by g0ozs Fix Formatting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Rick, you might also want to have a look here... http://www.qsl.net/ve3bdb/technical.htm and here... http://www.vmars.org.uk/wsn19.html I'm sitting here with the service manual for the Cromwell I in front of me and under the service section for the WS 19 set it gives two paragraphs and 1 wiring diagrams for the wireless and intercom and another larger wiring diagram which appears to be for the whole electrical system and seems to show the wireless system within that overll system. I can scan them and email to you if you like? Although I must warn you that overall electrical schematic is bigger than my A4 scanner so will probably come in two parts. I've just quickly scanned the wiring schematic for the Cromwell I, I doubt it changed much over the various Mks of Cromwell but if it did I'm pretty sure Adrian will be along in just a mo to give you the fully skinny on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Just a final word, I culled this from the Royal Signals Website... The No 19 Set was designed to give armoured troops complete, speedy and reliable communications. It was developed at low priority up to 1940 by the Signals Experimental Establishment and by Pye Radio. The cheap Pye model was adopted then very quickly replaced with a Mk II to bring it up to required specifications in 1941 and then by the more efficient Mk III in 1942. These improved sets were particularly significant in the fast-moving armoured fighting in the Western Desert. The set provides HF inter-tank and tank-to-HQ R/T, CW and MCW communications, VHF inter-tank communications and an intercom facility for a tank's crew. The HF part, the 'A' set, is tuned to receive and transmit with a single dial and has a 'flick' switch for rapidly changing between two frequencies, a device still used in aircraft today. The VHF part, the 'B' set, was phased out in the 1950s as the Larkspur range of VHF FM equipment came into service. The Royal Armoured Corps replaced their thus modified No 19 Sets with the very similar C12 in the mid-50s, and this in turn was replaced by the C13 when it was developed and produced. The set has an HF range of 10 miles, 15 miles CW and a VHF range of 1000 yards. 17.5" x 8.5" x 2.5", it weighs 40 lb. so it would apepar that you'll be looking at a Mk III set for a Normandy time frame! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ozs Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 As Pete has noted the B-Set was withdrawn in the 1950s - actually a lot of WS No 19 units were refurbished by REME in the 1950s with the B Set components removed and survived well into the 1960s in various roles. So finding a working WS19 with a complete viable B set can more difficult than finding one that is viable for HF use. if you do find a complete one it's also best not to use the B set with an antenna as its frequencies just above 200MHz are used for military air to ground traffic today ! Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Rick, here's another couple of links that I had in my favourites, they're specific to the Churchill but with all these things there is some overlap between the various tanks and at the very least they'll give you a better visual representaiton of what you're trying to acheive. I hope they help mate and remember to post pics once you get going...nice big pics so we can get all the glorious detail!:cheesy: http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/churchill/restoration/stowage/electrict.htm This next link is a nice one... http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/churchill/restoration/stowage/radio.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ozs Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 On the Churchill theme - details for both 6pdr and 17pdr turrets with photos: http://churchilltank.com/radio/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Git Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Rick, one last link, on a modellers site but informative nonetheless... http://www.onesixth.co.uk/vb4forum/showthread.php?1359-Wireless-Set-No-19-in-British-AFV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Are you going for one that has the WS38AFV installed as well? That changes the installation with different comms boxes. The WS38 adds an extra set for communication with local infantry (in addition to the WS19's tank-to-tank and tank-to-HQ sets). It connects to the WS19, so you can operate all of them from the same control box. It uses a third antenna. Bothe WS19 and WS38AFV manuals can be found here - http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/archive/files_index.htm Edited March 4, 2013 by Lauren Child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 that is exactly what i was looking for, thanks very much. lauren i will fit the 19 set on it's own as i'm a great believer in keeping things as simple as possible, maybe if i had more time i'd fit the 38 set but the season is fast approaching and i'd like to debut it at tankfest :-D thanks again for your help rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lssah2025 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Rick, contact Peter Hommes, I just sold him all of my WS kit (from the USA), included was almost 2 complete installation sets for a Sherman and I also have the WS38 AFV in there as well, plus all the junction boxes etc. So you might be able to get all at once, several of my sets worked A and B. . He also has 15 or so other WS 19 sets in stock with carriers etc from a friend of mine in Canada that he bought to. He still might be unloading the 900kg pallet..... I will also be selling my AFV speedo that I have in the Humber, I think it was for a centurion, I have the correct one for my HSC now, don't know if you still need one.. Lance http://www.elalamein.eu/ UPDATE, looks like he is starting to list some of my old kit http://www.elalamein.eu/wireless Edited March 4, 2013 by lssah2025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 i've been doing a bit of shopping around for the comms kit and this is what i've managed to get together so far. i know i'm missing the power unit and variometer and leads but is there anything else and does anyone have any of the bits i need. cheers rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Toadmans pictures of the interior of the Cromwell show the connecting cables/conduit I suspect this might still be available somewhere... 12 core wire or 12 individual wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i've been doing a bit of shopping around for the comms kit and this is what i've managed to get together so far. i know i'm missing the power unit and variometer and leads but is there anything else and does anyone have any of the bits i need. cheers rick Bits you will need: Carriers, Set, No.1 (or 21) + mounting straps. This takes the set and supply unit side by side. Leads, Aerial, No.1 (or Connector Coaxial No.10) - A set to variometer cable Leads, Aerial, No.3 (or Connector, Coaxial, No.11A) - B set to aerial base No.9 Variometer with aerial feeder No.4 or No.5 (depending on thickness of turret roof) Aerial base No.8 or No.10 with Mounting No.1 Aerial Base No.9 with Mounting No.1 or No.2 - depends on install, No.2 is taller for cluttered turret tops Supply unit to suit your set. (No.1, I suspect) Replacement power and control harness connectors for set. 6pt power lead from turret junction box to supply unit 6pt dogbone for supply unit to set (looks like a US Mk.II set) 12pt connectors for set to CU2, CU2 to CU 1 in appropriate lengths Cable for CU1 to rotary base junction box (may be screened conduit or plastic covered) Cable from JD3 to hull junction box Bucket full of nuts, bolts, hooks & cable clips Aerial rods F No 1, 2 &3 Aerial rod G Aerial base No.9 protector Brush guards for set & supply unit Waterproof cover for same Wiring plate Spare valve case (4G) Spare parts case (5C) Headsets for all crew members (not the ones with the grey "Tannoy" microphones). Headache tablets. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 cheers chris now if you could just put up a pic of each item, that would be great rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 cheers chris now if you could just put up a pic of each item, that would be great rick Don't tempt me! (Anyway, I can't find the camera lead.):-( Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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