Joris Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Chaps, No tanks in town this year, only the French press release has been released yet so don't know all the details yet as to why. Hope it will be organized next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Bu**er! I went last year and quite a few of the vehicle owners were disapointed that steel tracks had been banned from much of the route, I wonder if that has anything to do with it? i.e. the local authorities are getting more picky in what can and can't run and where it can run.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Just did a translation of the french press release and indeed it is for exactly the reasons I mentioned above, have a look for yourself: http://www.tanksintown.be/communique2012.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longydagun Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Huge shame but then i can see where they are coming from, don't want to upset the city or the authorities by going ahead with the laws somewhat unclear at the moment! Hope they can sort it for 2013 as there was definitely talks of a trip for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Same here, was thinking of bringing the boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenivers Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 It'll be back next year once the officials realise how much tourism the towns lost . :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The three reasons cited are: The legislation armored "metal track" is not clarified and road managers refuse to position on the matter. Registration of tanks are low at one month of the event, particularly due to this legislation metal tracks. Difficulties for the closure of the Route de Wallonie remain. Is the legislation issue more a debate of principle - or has actual damage been done in the past? I always thought that, despite the high weight of tanks, the actual loading on paved surfaces is fairly modest and it is only the minor surface marking which gives rise to concern. Maybe the traditional road surfaces found in the towns in the area of this event suffer more than is apparent, e.g. cracking of stone cobbles? I'd imagine that real infrastructure damage occurring under the surface is more likely to be caused by heavy trucks where often there is no visual evidence on the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longydagun Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The three reasons cited are: The legislation armored "metal track" is not clarified and road managers refuse to position on the matter. Registration of tanks are low at one month of the event, particularly due to this legislation metal tracks. Difficulties for the closure of the Route de Wallonie remain. Is the legislation issue more a debate of principle - or has actual damage been done in the past? I always thought that, despite the high weight of tanks, the actual loading on paved surfaces is fairly modest and it is only the minor surface marking which gives rise to concern. Maybe the traditional road surfaces found in the towns in the area of this event suffer more than is apparent, e.g. cracking of stone cobbles? I'd imagine that real infrastructure damage occurring under the surface is more likely to be caused by heavy trucks where often there is no visual evidence on the surface. Having been on 5 or more occasions i can only think that they have cancelled on principle. The Hellcat for example on steel tracks did make a slight 'white' mark on the tarmac roads but i don't believe this was actually damaging the road it was more from dust or some other substance (maybe someone could expand on that) Now the hellcat does not weigh that much at about 18/19 tonnes in comparison to the Shermans 30 odd tonnes but in fairness the Shermans did not seem to do that much damage either on the tarmac! So maybe it is down to the cobble stones in the town center being damage by the tanks but then surely that would be more down to the weight of the tanks rather than the tracks themselves and in which case it means both rubber and steel damage the surface meaning that really the ban on steels was a bit wasteful. I just hope it can be resolved tanks in town has always been so well organised in brilliant settings and it is always well received by the locals! Cheers Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 On hard surfaces, as far as tanks are concerned, the ground pressure from steel tracks is much higher than rubber simply because of the smaller contact area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Real shame. The debate is long but for me it is visual - steels do leave a mess and when I rode with Mike on his Hellcat in Mons we just followed the tracks that the steel tanks left. It is all fun for us but not many people will want to see their town marked up like this. The paper work and hoops for A&E was beyond a nightmare and don't blame Mons for pulling if steels are the issue. Tank numbers will be down as actually not everyone has the money to do it. Let's hope the commercial elements of Mons realises it is losing massive trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singaeger Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 As a qualified 'Highway Engineer' perhaps I shouldclarify the possible issues. I have no doubt whatsoever that even a Bren gun carrier will adversely affect abitumen surfaced carriageway. The load is not the issue as the weight is evenlydistributed and unlikely to cause deformation of the road formation. Unless itis in poor condition already or the sub soil very soft or water logged. All bitumen carriageways have a surface course which is typically 20-40mm thickand consists of specially designed bitumen binders holding together a matrix ofangular stone. The surface coarse is designed to be water resistant,able to hold together under severe braking forces and also to give a very goodadhesion too tyres when cornering and breaking. The stone is specially selectedfor its anti-abrasion properties and resistance to polishing. The white dust created by steel tracks is the surface ofthe stone being ground away or by the individual pieces cracking under thestrain/impact. This will cause a deterioration of surface performance andpossibly failure of the material bonding that will show up next winter in theform of pot holes. When slewing a tracked vehicle, an already aging surfacecourse can easily be stripped from the bituminous layers below as the forces exertedcannot be withstood by the remaining strength of binder. Some roads which are already aging (ie cracked andshowing early signs of failure) are treated with a surface dressing, whichsimply sticks a thin layer of stone onto the surface course, this thin layerhelps prevent water penetration and restores anti skid properties. It is however very likely to be entirelystripped if used by tracked vehicles, especially on bends. Black paved or cobbled pavement would in my opinion behighly susceptible to damage, both to the actual surface and also structure. It is likely that the roads I question are already knownto be in poor repair, or have been inspected because of the past tank use. Whereas if they had not been used probably would not have been inspected & therecondition assessed. I acknowledge that the area & depth of damage caused bytracked vehicles will be limited, but would expect that the French highwaydepartments budgets are being squeezed as much as ours in the UK & can therefor totally understand why the localengineer will oppose anything that will cause further avoidable damage. To give an indication of the costs involved, Surface dressing will cost £35 per square m and a full excavation & replacement of a damagedsurface course £170 per square m (its worth noting that the hole width of the road need tobe relaid not just the track marked area.) that said lets hope they can get approval to run again in the future. 'singe' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scammell4199 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Gutted! was looking forward to going again. Good job i hadn't booked hotel already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Thanks for that very good explanation! The only thing I can add to that is Mons is in Belgium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Good stuff Singe and makes perfect sense. My highways guys here were trying to say the same to me but you made it so I could understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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