Richard Farrant Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 . Never seen a gearbox and transfer box split in situ? Quite common during repair work, if only a gearbox had to be removed. If it was an early Saracen removing a trasfer box entailed pulling both centre wheel stations, so less dismantling the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hi All and Richard Can you help? Oil in Gearbox is? Same in Transfer box? Fluid in Hydraulic Reservoir is? Oil in Bevel Boxes is? My manuals say " fill with appropriate fluid" Thanks ps exactly right, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hydraulic reservoir same as fluid flywheel Morris Liquimatic No 1 http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=125&product=Liquimatic+No+1+ISO+10+Hydraulic+Oil I put Hypoid 90 in my wheel stations Gearbox, haven't needed to top up, but would most likely use 90. and when it comes to greasing the wheel stations, Richard advised the same 90 grade rather than grease as this will flow through the long connections easier (Richard, grateful for clarification on these) Also, lots of pictures here that might help identify where things need to go back: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?23939-Ok!-now-I-have-a-new-Fluid-Flywheel-for-my-ailing-Saracen-I-want-to-fit-it!/page4&highlight=saracen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Usefull info from Clive can be found here http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/POLcompact.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Careful with the oil used in the different gearboxes! All tranfer and bevel boxes can use Hypoid but only the GL4 version, GL5 seems to negatively affect the brass components. The main gearbox does not use the same oil as it is friction-dependant similar to an autobox. Do a search on the forum, here are quite a couple of posts on the issue. Clive and Richard are both walking encyclopedias! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Delete this and the replies then please Lee Gordon Edited August 21, 2012 by Gordon_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Can you expand a bit on that please Monty? I asked over on Celtrac.Org what oil to put in the controlled differential in my T-36 Snow Tractor, and Wayne, the owner of the site, came back with this; Can you start a new thread for this please or it will take the thread off Topic. Thank You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Can you expand a bit on that please Monty? I asked over on Celtrac.Org what oil to put in the controlled differential in my T-36 Snow Tractor, and Wayne, the owner of the site, came back with this; Cletrac Controlled Differential Steering units use 50 wt non-detergent motor oil. Some have used a gear oil of similar weight and composition, but just don't use hypoid type oils or oils with extreme pressure additives. Whatever you use, you don't want to anything that will increase the lubricity over motor oil, nor anything that will harm brass or bronze bushings. I expect he is thinking along the same lines as you regarding the brass content, just not sure of the "don't use Hypoid" comment. Should I be off to Halfords looking for any SAE 50 non-detergent non-Hypoid, or is that too simplistic? Gordon Gordon, I can probably help you with oil info here, but as Marmite (Lee) says, start a new thread as it is not related to Saracens. you can PM me if you like. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hi All and Richard Can you help? Oil in Gearbox is? Same in Transfer box? Fluid in Hydraulic Reservoir is? Oil in Bevel Boxes is? My manuals say " fill with appropriate fluid" Thanks ps exactly right, Richard Hi Shaun, Gearbox ; SAE30 straight mineral engine oil (not gear oil) Transfer box ; OEP220 (Army designation) Hydraulics and fluid fly-wheel ; OM13 (Army Desig,) an ISO10 hydraulic oil, eg. Morris Liquamatic No.1 Bevel boxes ; OEP220 Lube nipples on suspension and wishbones, use gear oil OEP220 is a an 80w/90 Extreme Pressure gear oil, the MoD spec book states it is not suitable for systems with gears or bearings made of copper alloys .... as the Army specified this oil for many years in Ferrets, Saracen, etc, it is obvious that there are no copper alloy parts in the gear train on these vehicles. have I missed anything? regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEC Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Quite common during repair work, if only a gearbox had to be removed. If it was an early Saracen removing a trasfer box entailed pulling both centre wheel stations, so less dismantling the better. Understood. Only worked on overhaul programs. So the later production vehicles had the same set up as the Stalwart in the centre bevel boxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 So the later production vehicles had the same set up as the Stalwart in the centre bevel boxes? Correct, muff couplings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 High all Was running the Salute Show in Dublin last week Worked my ass off to get the Saracen ready Started engine no drive Gear change pedal doe's not appear to work, dos'nt feel right. refurbished box Was i supposed to release something inside? Fox gives different pedal return heights for different gears, no change in Saracen at this time... Again help please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 High allWas running the Salute Show in Dublin last week Worked my ass off to get the Saracen ready Started engine no drive Gear change pedal doe's not appear to work, dos'nt feel right. refurbished box Was i supposed to release something inside? Fox gives different pedal return heights for different gears, no change in Saracen at this time... Again help please Hi Protacman, I had similar problems on my sarry, it was stuck in third gear. I used the manual but Richard had to bail me out eventually. There is alittle bit of a write-up toward the last posts on the Saracen Rebuild thread under the British Vehicles section. You do have a manaul fot this adjustment? I could forward you the related section if not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 Can you tell me where on the rebuild thread, there are 11 pages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Can you tell me where on the rebuild thread, there are 11 pages This is where it started, http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?16817-Saracen-Build-up/page38, do you require a copy of the gearbox adjustment section? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 High allWas running the Salute Show in Dublin last week Worked my ass off to get the Saracen ready Started engine no drive Gear change pedal doe's not appear to work, dos'nt feel right. refurbished box Was i supposed to release something inside? Fox gives different pedal return heights for different gears, no change in Saracen at this time... Again help please hi Shaun, Only just spotted this, am sending you a PM. regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Photo of the Show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Thanks to some advice from Richard I now have gears. However, having sorted one thing, I moved on.... I reassembled the steering and tried to turn it WITHOUT the Engine running, but with all 4 front wheels raised off the ground. Really hard to move and then the housing creaked and broke where I had got it welded. Now, do I have a problem in the steering gear or the internal steering assembley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 This is where it cracked The whole assembly tries to move when I try to turn the steering ( Engine not running) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The whole assembly tries to move when I try to turn the steering ( Engine not running) Hi Mate, The assy does tend to flex if you turn the steering without engine running. The "hoods" over the arms each side stop a lot of the flexing, i am thinking that the ball couplings could be too tight, incorrect shimming or some lost. This could be the cause, or the crack might have occured from impact on a wheel at some point sending shock up the system and finding a weak point. regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 This is where it cracked The whole assembly tries to move when I try to turn the steering ( Engine not running) I suspect one of the joints are frozen. Can you loosen strategic ball joints on the outside near the wheels to see if the wheels turn independantly? Another point, if that weld broke while stationary, there is no hope it will last while driving. You will have to find a replacement part. Pity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Ok so tomorrow Grease all points Start Engine and test steering 1/ moves ok 2/ If stiff, loosen ball joint coupling on each end of steering, test. If not any better 3/ Disconnect outer ball joints and check movement on either side of vehicle If still no good....... Then remove all wheel stations and replace with new one's, Have Dinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protacman Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Got the steering working Rams are supposed to be evenly adjusted One has no thread showing, other has an inch. the one with an inch (left hs ) wheels are slightly toe in RHS no threads, wheels are facing way in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Got the steering workingRams are supposed to be evenly adjusted One has no thread showing, other has an inch. the one with an inch (left hs ) wheels are slightly toe in RHS no threads, wheels are facing way in. Don't adjust toe in at this point, it is done as normal on the track rods. Not sure of the setting up of the rams at present time, but think you need to get that right and then move outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 22 LBDR Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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