Is the Thornycroft Amazon Coles Crane Airfix Kit to scale?

[jamesinnewcastle]

Hi

 

During the war my Mother was evacuated to Dry Drayton, in May 1941 a bomber crashed in a field and slid towards the cottage she was in - I want to find out just how close it came.

 

I have a photo of the crashed aircraft but it is very grainy, I need to be able to superimpose the above crane in order to work out what is in the photo - a sort of forensic investigation if you will.

 

I've bought the Airfix kit of the crane and photographed it in roughly the right position but it isn't looking right, the crane body looks too long! Is the airfix kit to scale or is it a different version of the crane or have I got a mismatch somewhere else.

 

Best explained with the photographs....

 

(A side question - you can see through the window of the crane in the original photo, presumably into the field beyond - so what is it on top of the cranes cab? It's not part of the aircraft as it's not there in the other shots - was it normal to carry items on the roof of these cranes? I'm assuming that the 'dark' object is something on the roof of the crane)

 

James

Edited October 11, 2010 by jamesinnewcastle

[jamesinnewcastle]

You can see that the superimposed pic of the model fits well except that the crane body is really too long especially as I've turned the crane a little too much. (There may be a second gentleman to the right of the obvious one - I can't make my mind up about it)

 

Can anyone help? I'd like to make a 3D model of the crane too - anyone have any blue prints for it? I could measure up the Airfix kit but not if it's wrong!

 

All comments gratefully received!

 

 

James

[cosrec]

I believe there was a long and short wheel base of the amazon chassis but cant be sure. As for whats on roof i think thats wreckage in back ground. As for windows would suggest sun reflecting maybe . Also i think there are four more people to right peering into wreckage to right of obvious person also another stood on crane operating controls

[cosrec]

[Ivor Ramsden]

The aircraft is a Short Stirling. It's got a distinctive mud deflector on the undercarriage and the undercarriage door is attached to the main frame of the u/c. Both of these are visible in the photo.

 

Some, if not all, Amazons had a stowage frame on top of the cab. I think this is what you can see. The Amazon in your photo is a short wheelbase one. I think the Airfix kit is reasonably accurate but it could be a couple of mm out.

[Niels v]

here is short wheel base amazon with roof rack, like the one in your pic

[XS650]

...and the Airfix is the long wheelbase one .

[Niels v]

...and the Airfix is the long wheelbase one .

Sorry but no, the airfix model it is a short wheel base amazon.

The long wheel base amazon has a small flat bed between the cab and crane.

[AndyFowler]

Great thread ! Some very observant memebers on here ! Well spotted and love those Amazon pictures !

[Niels v]

Some, if not all, Amazons had a stowage frame on top of the cab..

 

I think that it is correct that many Amazons had a stowage frame, but my one has a roof hatch which look original and no signs of a frame, and all The danish ones I have seen pictures of did not have a frame.

[jamesinnewcastle]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the responses! Some nice photos and thank goodness a roof rack! It's quite amazing how many things slowly come to light in that photo as you look longer at it!

 

I'm making up a 3D model of the scene in order to 'look' behind and around the whole scene. I'm using the reference shots to fit a 3D scale model Stirling to the 2D pictures I have. By 'triangulating' the views I should be able to reproduce the positions of most of the parts. Then I can see if I can work out how the plane got to where it is.

 

The crew were landing but they came too low - they were under attack from a JU88 at some point. The undercarriage is a complex mechanism in this plane so there is no doubt that it had been lowered for landing, it could never just fall into that position. It's also a very tall undercarriage and I suspect that the wheels dug into the soft earth of the field and flipped it forwards onto its back losing the protruding cockpit as it went and then sliding into the tree.

 

If anyone does have blueprints of the crane I'd love to have a copy - or if anyone has a real one and could make some measurements for me!!

 

Thanks all!

 

James

[Niels v]

Hi

I have an amazon, but its a long wheel base, so the crane might be longer.

What do you need measurements of ?

But http://www.yorkshireairmuseum.co.uk/ has a short wheel base version on display which might be closer to you.

[jamesinnewcastle]

Hi Niels

 

I've attached a pic for dimensions if you wouldn't mind!

 

I've noticed a few things though:

 

1. Sometimes the crane is called AEC and not Coles

2. The mechanism for raising the crane can be different - Some have steel ropes and some appear to have a screwed rod (check out the very end of the jib)

 

Perhaps the size difference is associated with a different mechanism?

 

 

James

 

(Sorry for the rubbish way I've made the model guys! I was just rushing to get it in the pic)

Edited October 12, 2010 by jamesinnewcastle

[Niels v]

Hi

I will take the measurements next time I se my Amazon.

My one has the wire raising of the crane but it is temporarely removed due to the hight problems

I think there where different types of coles cranes, but from what I know all was made at coles .

[jamesinnewcastle]

Thanks Niels!!

 

 

James

[Niels v]

a 76cm f 38cm e 37cm d 45cm c+b 115cm