B Vehicles, 1970s, Chevrons?

[RecyMech]

I think this one might be for those with a good photo album or an even better memory.

 

Most of the MK pictures I have, or am finding, are of restored vehicles & it seems to be road legal they are (now) fitted with yellow/orange rear marker board chevrons.

 

The question is......were these compulsory for actual service vehicles, in the UK or BAOR in the seventies ?. I have a feeling that they were not. I say that because (apart from the obvious tactical disadvantage) I don't think they were made a legal requirement on civvy stuff till about 76 ish.

 

Can anyone confirm one way or t'other ?

Ta much.

 

Howard

[AlienFTM]

I think this one might be for those with a good photo album or an even better memory.

 

Most of the MK pictures I have, or am finding, are of restored vehicles & it seems to be road legal they are (now) fitted with yellow/orange rear marker board chevrons.

 

The question is......were these compulsory for actual service vehicles, in the UK or BAOR in the seventies ?. I have a feeling that they were not. I say that because (apart from the obvious tactical disadvantage) I don't think they were made a legal requirement on civvy stuff till about 76 ish.

 

Can anyone confirm one way or t'other ?

Ta much.

 

Howard

 

Absolutely not used in in the Corps Area of BAOR while I was there 1977 - 1985.

 

Pretty damn sure I didn't see them in use within UKLF 1975 - 1977 and fairly sure I didn't see them within UKLF 1985 - 1989.

 

Edited to add: I still have after-images of my last CFT in 1989. CFT consisted at the time of three phases:

 

8 miles as a squad on roads and cross-country wearing the relevant kit.

100m carrying an oppo of similar size and weight and all equipment in a fireman's lift.

A "Special to Arm" task.

 

Attached to REME in BAOR in 1985, they had the bright idea of making the NBC test the Special to Arm task, so they could tick off two boxes on the training schedule for the price of one. With an RAPC major unit in 1989, they had the bright idea that RAPC Special to Arm meant "Get on the truck; get off the truck." And that's what we did, again with all our kit. I still remember myself, demob-happy with just a couple of months to go, having yomped around the Longmoor Military Railway, completed the fireman's lift and really did not enjoy getting my backside over the tailgate of the four-tonner. Getting off consisted of stepping off into space and stuff the consequences to my weary ankles because I was too tired to care and the CFT was complete when I hit the ground. Some spectacular blisters to be sorted the following day.

 

The point is, I had a very close, traumatic view of a closed tailgate of a non-tactical MK in 1989 and I can say with a good deal of certainty that there were no visibility chevrons.

Edited July 27, 2010 by AlienFTM
Extra info

[RecyMech]

Ah yes, the good'ole BFT......never seen so much thought gone it a skive than trying to get out of a BFT. Ever noticed the 'encouragaing' way the PTIs run along side wearing no chuffing kit at all while you're stuggling your cobs off & really wishing he would 'go away in short sharp jerky movements'.

 

But anyway....back to the plot......chevrons, yep that'll do for me Tommy

 

Ta much.:thanx:

 

H

[AlienFTM]

Ah yes, the good'ole BFT......never seen so much thought gone it a skive than trying to get out of a BFT.

 

H

No, no, no, the Combat Fitness Test, not the Basic Fitness Test (1.5 miles run and walk as a squad in 15 minutes wearing boots and puttees and PT vest, then a best effort run back in 10m30 or less - but with variations for age).

 

The Falklands had revealed that the BFT (apparently brought in about 74 - 75 to replace a test not unlike the CFT) bred an army of racing snakes who could run a mile and a half in 7m30 and not break sweat, but put them under load across East Falkland and it was a different game, so now we has the BFT and the CFT.

 

Learn from other people's mistakes. There is not enough time in life to make them all yourself.

[schliesser92]

I certainly didn't see chevrons, and I left BAOR in 1978, and the Army in 1980. In 3 Div Signals, we had the "Long Vehicle" plates fitted.(1971-74). It seems to be daft to paint the vehicles so as they can't be seen, and then put hi-viz kit on them so they can be seen!

 

As far as I know, there are no excemtions for military vehicles as regards road safety and H&S.

There was a thing in BAOR in the late 70s, whereby the old cross-country tyres on the Bedford RLs were withdrawn and replaced by more modern tyres after a fatal accident involving German civvies.

[RecyMech]

AlienFTM,

Ah, must learn to read proper like wot u can, init.

 

My eyes saw CFT but the brain read BFT as that what I always knew it as....then when you dated it's introduction I can see why BFT is stuck in my head. Guess I was a racing snake then, although being REME & of the pie & pint variety, more like 'racing slug' fits the bill better.

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Schleisser92,

You post is interesting as it is slightly contradictory....you say no chevrons were fitted but Long Vehicle plates were (71-74). Now, according to civvy laws, Long Vehicle plates are fitted to anything of a non rigid configuration, i.e articulated trailers & drawbar trailers, while chevrons are only fitted to rigids. And, if there are no exemptions between civvy & military then it follows that chevrons must have been used if Long Vehicle plates were used.

 

Possibly vehicles within UKLF had to follow civvy regs more closely on markings & movements whereas of course in BAOR we were relatively free to block any road you fancied with a Sqn of Cents or Chieftains.

 

Anyway.....I think I've found the answer in a book I've unearthed, there is a rear shot of a bunch of RE Militants in BAOR delivering Heavy Ferry kit & all towing trailers. No chevrons on the Mili's & no Long Vehicle on the drawbar trailers.

 

Cheers blokes.

H

[schliesser92]

AlienFTM,

Ah, must learn to read proper like wot u can, init.

 

My eyes saw CFT but the brain read BFT as that what I always knew it as....then when you dated it's introduction I can see why BFT is stuck in my head. Guess I was a racing snake then, although being REME & of the pie & pint variety, more like 'racing slug' fits the bill better.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Schleisser92,

You post is interesting as it is slightly contradictory....you say no chevrons were fitted but Long Vehicle plates were (71-74). Now, according to civvy laws, Long Vehicle plates are fitted to anything of a non rigid configuration, i.e articulated trailers & drawbar trailers, while chevrons are only fitted to rigids. And, if there are no exemptions between civvy & military then it follows that chevrons must have been used if Long Vehicle plates were used.

 

Possibly vehicles within UKLF had to follow civvy regs more closely on markings & movements whereas of course in BAOR we were relatively free to block any road you fancied with a Sqn of Cents or Chieftains.

 

Anyway.....I think I've found the answer in a book I've unearthed, there is a rear shot of a bunch of RE Militants in BAOR delivering Heavy Ferry kit & all towing trailers. No chevrons on the Mili's & no Long Vehicle on the drawbar trailers.

 

Cheers blokes.

H

 

With 3 Div, in the airportable role the Aircon-B containers were fitted with running gear and towed to South Cerney/RAF Lynham - maybe that's why we had the plates fitted.

[RecyMech]

Trawling through some more books last evening unearthed a couple of rear shots of Mk3 Antars with Long Vehicle plates fitted while others have none & non of the Mk2s seem to have them at all. No dates & places in the captions though.

 

Being as they say 'Long Vehicle' (in English) & not 'Achtung Uberlange' (or similar) I can probably safely assume that UKLF stuff would have had them fitted while BAOR (being a bit more on the tactical edge in the 70s) would not.

 

I rest my case then

 

H

[XS650]

I remember seeing plenty of army Bedford RL's in UK with them fitted on the road in the 70's. When they were introduced they were a UK only thing , we were still quite an independent nation in the 1970's:D . The army tends to (has to ?) follow the letter of the law regarding road traffic acts.

The Dept. of Transport was trying to reduce the number of incidents of cars driving under the back of parked lorries at night , often decapitating the driver.

Edited July 29, 2010 by XS650

[AlienFTM]

I certainly didn't see chevrons, and I left BAOR in 1978, and the Army in 1980. In 3 Div Signals, we had the "Long Vehicle" plates fitted.(1971-74).

If you were 3 Div Signals:

 

1. Did you ever have cause to visit Alanbrooke Bks, Paderborn, shared by 15/19H and TFE HQ&Signals Tp? Bazz (from this forum) and I were both there in 15/19H from 3 Armd Div's arrival in late 77.

 

2. My best mukker from my schooldays was a Nigel Walker who IIRC went to 3 Div Signals in Soest. As his nine approached, he was due a posting and for the UK. They sent him to Benbecula, arguing that it WAS UK. He put in his notice. Mean anything?

[schliesser92]

If you were 3 Div Signals:

 

1. Did you ever have cause to visit Alanbrooke Bks, Paderborn, shared by 15/19H and TFE HQ&Signals Tp? Bazz (from this forum) and I were both there in 15/19H from 3 Armd Div's arrival in late 77.

 

2. My best mukker from my schooldays was a Nigel Walker who IIRC went to 3 Div Signals in Soest. As his nine approached, he was due a posting and for the UK. They sent him to Benbecula, arguing that it WAS UK. He put in his notice. Mean anything?

 

When I was with 3 Div Signals,(1971-74), we were an airportable unit based in Carter Barracks, Bulford. At the time of 3 Div's reformation as an armoured division , I was with 1 Ard Div in Verden/Aller.

 

Benbecula IS a UK posting. It was my first posting (632 Signal Troop) after completing trade training. It used to have detachments to St Kilda, which was, in a way, quite interesting. I put in my notice after 12, when they wanted me to go back to NI for two years. For safety reasons (my wife comes from Belfast) I declined and told them where they could shove it.