Panther Prototype?

[Iain]

Hi,

I'm trying to find some information & pictures of Daimler-Benz's VK.3002 prototype.

 

The MAN VK.3002 eventually became the PzKpfw V Panther, & D-Bs prototype was rejected.

 

Apparently it was a much simpler machine than the Panther, with some good design ideas that unfortunately (for the Wehrmacht) were not carried over to any subsequent design.

 

I believe that prototypes were built, but I can't find any pictures, if they exist!

 

Does anybody here have any info?

 

Cheers, Iain

[steveo578]

Some stock photos of DB VK3002

 

first photo of a design model showing features T34 style hull hull escape hatches small turret with what is probably an 7.5cm L/60 cannon.

 

 

Photo heavily airbrushed (probably from a movie) shows the DB VK3002 hull in a scrap pile

outside the Daimler factory at the end of the war.

 

 

 

Another photo of the same scene showing the DB prototype waiting the scrapman with an 8cm PAW 600 cannon in foreground.

 

 

[Iain]

Thanks Steve,

 

I knew it was similar to the T-34, but didn't realise it was more or less a straight copy.

 

I bet that would've led to a few friend or foe identification problems during combat, especially once the T-34/85 came onto the scene!

 

Cheers, Iain

[steveo578]

Spotted these three drawings after posting, they show comparative of original simple leaf spring suspension-probably totally overloaded 2nd design with interleaved suspension and final design with the Tiger 1 style 8.8cm L/56 gun- which suggests that the other weapon was a 7.5cm taper bore based on the taper bore Pak 41 7.5cm reducing to 5.5cm rather than a conventional 7.5cm KWK cannon.

 

 

 

 

 

Gen. Guderian -head of Waffenant suggested that it would be better to just reverse engineer the T34 which would certainly be valid for the armour layout but as far as the 76mm F34 weapon was concerned it was no better as an A/T weapon than the long 5cm L/60 fitted to later J series Panzer 3, probably better as a HE firing gun. The original turret and 137cm ring dimension of the T34/76 would have precluded any significant re-armament.

 

As for shooting at your own kit -it happened all the time, generally identification relied on the tank approaching from the "right direction" and during the East front and Desert wars loads of stuff was used after capture.

[Sean N]

I think there are very few photos of VK3002 in existence. If you do a search for VK3002 on the Axis History forum it'll throw up a couple more though, plus a couple of interesting threads about it.

[berna2vm]

Adolph Hitler supposedly saw the DB prototype and dismissed it instantly on the grounds that a vehicle designed by an 'inferior' race should not be copied by the master race... I am glad this happened though because I love the Panther and to my mind was the best all round tank of ww2:-)

[steveo578]

berna2vm

Adolph Hitler supposedly saw the DB prototype and dismissed it instantly on the grounds that a vehicle designed by an 'inferior' race

 

Didn't stop him exploiting the inferior technology of those Czech untermensch though:-D

[Shamouti Ben Yafo]

Hi all!

 

The Czech produced equipment wouldn't have been regarded as untermensch at all; it would have been regarded as German, since the Sudetenland (German speaking area) then the rest of Czech territory was annexed (as opposed to occupied) as part of Greater Germany. Accuracy was never a consideration in Nazi racial politics.