Iain

Thanks Steve, I knew it was similar to the T-34, but didn't realise it was more or less a straight copy. I bet that would've led to a few friend or foe identification problems during combat, especially once the T-34/85 came onto the scene! Cheers, Iain

Hi, I'm trying to find some information & pictures of Daimler-Benz's VK.3002 prototype. The MAN VK.3002 eventually became the PzKpfw V Panther, & D-Bs prototype was rejected. Apparently it was a much simpler machine than the Panther, with some good design ideas that unfortunately (for the Wehrmacht) were not carried over to any subsequent design. I believe that prototypes were built, but I can't find any pictures, if they exist! Does anybody here have any info? Cheers, Iain

Thanks Davie. :-) I think it looks very much like the one in the Glasgow museum. That one has a pull-out kitchen as well. I wonder how long that's been an exhibit, sure it wasn't there last time I went in....er...um...1985 I think. Glasgow Transport Museum used to be my favourite building as a kid. But I mostly remember the glorious steam locomotives & the big model ships like the "Hood". Anyway, back to the wagon. I was almost hoping that that's an advert from another decade, it seems very cheap for a decent wagon!! I'm pretty sure now that mine isn't a Pilot. It's being delivered on friday, so I can finally dust off the ol' magnifying glass & hunt for some clues!

Oh yes, bed sides. I thought I could see hydraulic cables in amongst them! :blush: Where's me specs!

Thanks Andy. No I hadn't noticed that one....is it just me, or is it a rather strange looking creature?! Has the nose been lengthened or something, it looks a bit odd? What's the contraption at the back end, a HIAB of some description?

Thanks Mike, that's the kind of info I need, as I'm mostly guessing here! :-) PM sent

I think the one for sale on Milweb is a 9'5" version. It's beyond my budget too. It's not the one at Crouch's. Mark, was that the Scania-engined one you mentioned before? I think I'd prefer the RR engine anyway. I'm not the worlds best mechanic, & I'd guess the RR would be a simpler bit of kit than a more modern Scania anyway?

Hi, my other post regarding lorries has wandered off-topic more than somewhat! I'm looking to buy one of these, I would be grateful to hear from people who know, as to the pros & cons of the above? The Constructor I've my eye on is a non- RAF (narrow) version, fitted with A Rolls-Royce 220 engine. I don't really have any leads on an Explorer at the mo', but would prefer a diesel version for economy reasons, & possibly a bit more grunt? A Militant would be a standard 6X6 flatbed, HIAB would be nice! Cheers, Iain

Aye, that's the problem. In 20 years of driving, including many big old vehicles, I've never so much as clipped anything or even run over a rabbit! But, I have been hospitalised for 6 months by a solicitors wife in a Volvo ( & nearly had both legs amputated). Fractured my spine & been trapped in a blazing wreck thanks to a careless driver I was a passenger with. While being driven by my girlfriend, been spun into a tree by an uninsured drunk driver who died in the process (had to crawl away from that one, as my legs were still broken from the Volvo Incident). I have absolutely no trust in any driver out there, & more or less regard everything else on the road as a potential enemy! Thanks to all this, I have a horror of being even slightly illegal while on the road ,sometimes just have a horror of being on the road, full stop!

I've just heard back from the MD of Torton(Pilot). He's worked for them for 38 years, & is sure it isn't a Pilot, although he says there are similarities, but neither he or his staff recognise it. The owner re-measured the van. Came back just as we measured it the first time. He also measured the bellyboxes & that is exactly 2.55 metres. Hmm...

Sean, Yes, they are opening windows. I think "Panloaf" is a generic term for the style of wagon? The other maker the owner mentioned was "Tilly/Tilley". Don't know where he heard it, and I can't find any reference to them as a maker of caravans. I do have a pressurised Tilley paraffin lamp, but sure an' they never made vans?! I found a few (defunct) links to "Pilot Panloaf" vans for sale, but no pics as they're a few years old. These pics are of 1) A van in Glasgow Transport Museum, marked as "A Pilot Panloaf". Not especially similar are they, apart from the basic shape? 2) A caravan that's apparently a Pilot (although they're not sure either). This is much closer. Note the wheel spats are almost identical to the ones on the front of my van. Also the aluminium strip around the middle & the rear lights. Also checked Rollalong (I used to work for a company called Rollalong, laying fibre-optic cables at an MOD site in Hampshire, sure they didn't make vans either!), Palladin & Tudor caravans. None of these look quite right. Hmm. I e-mailed Torton bodies, who used to be Pilot (thanks Richard!), waiting to see if they can shed any light. Cheers, Iain

Well, I've decided to carry on with the buy. If I back out now, it'll be leaving the family selling it in a right mess, it's kind of against my principles to shake on a deal & then scuttle off! It's being delivered to our bit of land, so that's no problem. My girlfriend is pointing out that she won't have wrapped up her official job until next year. So, as long as I don't mind staying put until then (grumble..mutter..etc.), I'll either have found a legal solution, or we can re-sell it & buy a smaller one. There's also the possibility we made a mistake with the measuring in the first place! I can't see it being wrong by 7" or so really, but you never know. The owners are away at the mo, so they can't retry that until they get back tomorrow. I've had a couple of requests for pictures, to help try & confirm whether it's a Pilot or not, so here's some I took when I went to see it. Cheers, Iain

Mike, could you pm me some details please? That'd be great! An Explorer has always been top of my list, whether I buy this particular wagon or not. Cheers, Iain

Explorer? Grrr...jealous! :-) Can I ask, what are the dimensions of your van? Cheers, Iain

Thanks for that Richard, that's the only bit of good news I've had all week!! :-)

I suppose I should point out (although I've been reluctant to do so, for reasons that will quite possibly become apparent), that this wagon isn't a toy, being bought for happy weekending. It is for my family & I to live in full time. We have sold our previous home, to make way for the wagon, which I genuinely believed would be perfectly legal to use once I had passed any relevant HGV tests. This is the culmination of years of planning & dreaming. We are now living in cramped, uncomfortable accomodation, that was only supposed to be temporary. What makes it even more difficult for me, is that absolutely everyone around me, from my girlfriend who works in local government, to my sister who is a very senior police officer (in Scotland), are telling me to just get on with it!! Of course, they aren't the ones who risk losing their license...or worse. Stressed?!? Me!?!?!?! Yup.

Could there be a museum somewhere that would be interested? Or why not convert it to a living van?! Hmm? Oh, yes, shut up Iain! After some reflection, I've decided I won't be buying the Constructor at Crouch's if it's one of the 9'5" ones. I think that would just be compounding the problem! He only has 1 MkI Militant there, & it actually belongs to one of his customers. It's tied up in a deal that's not my business to discuss, but I may be able to buy it, depending on what occurs with his deal. I've also just remembered, there's a Scammell Explorer & a 60s/70s showmans wagon (as well as an unusual electric blue Leyland Martian!) parked a few miles away from me (do they belong to anyone here?). I left a note on the Scammell last year, asking if it was available (it wasn't, but it was a polite & friendly refusal), I should be able to contact him about the wagons width issue. Cheers, Iain

Hi Andy, do you mean scratch-built models? I'm afraid I haven't attempted any yet :blush: I sometimes modify existing models, but that's all really. I've only started again recently, after a gap of about 15 years!

I managed to get hold of a couple of chaps with wagons the same width as mine. They just go out with them & have never had any hassle, so... I think I'll go ahead with the buy, it's being delivered anyway so it's not a problem as yet. I'll need to sort the air-brakes on the trailer & the tyres look a bit elderly etc. I'll take the relevant HGV tests & by the time all that's done, I'm sure I'll have figured out how the others get around it. Got an invite to David Crouch's yard for next week. He's got a Scammell Constructor with Rolls-Royce 220 that sounds interesting, not sure if it's one of the 9'5" wide ones. Also has more Scammells & AECs so, that's my next port of call! :-D Cheers, Iain

It does look similar David, but the whole construction etc. is very different. It's a bit like... say, comparing a Matador to an MK (no disrespect to the Bedford intended). This wagon is "over-engineered" & smacks of a different era, where everything was planned according to spec, & then trebled, just to be sure! An ERF or similar would no doubt do the job on tarmac, but I have many a muddy field to cross down on t'farm, before I can reach said metalled roads! Besides, now have me heart set on a Scammell or an AEC!!

Thanks for the info people, Mike especially. Am now horribly confused!! I measured the width with the owner when I went to see it. There is no makers info on the wagon itself, other than "Made in the British Empire" stamped on the inside of some of the panels! That isn't really much help, as when did the Empire cease to be? It could be a matter of personal opinion on the part of the maker. Or even old timber stockpiled & stamped before/during WWII. That's a completely un-educated guess by the way. The wagon is a "Pan-Loaf" style, not the more usual Mollycroft. Most of these I've seen are mid '50s-'60s. The quality of materials & workmanship inside, is as good or better than any I've seen We think the manufacturer may have been "Pilot" caravans, as it bears a strong resemblance to that family of van. The owner also once had a visit from an elderly showman, who told him straight away that he recognised it as a Pilot. Unfortunately, Pilot Caravans don't exist any more, and tapping in "Pilot" & "caravan" on the web, brings up thousands of links to aircraft pilots, who own caravans, funnily enough! The current owner found it in a scrapyard 9 years ago, & the yard didn't have any information on its history. He hasn't moved more than a few miles a year with it. My girlfriend suggests we just ignore the width issue, & claim (pretty much genuine!) ignorance if we get stopped. I'm just worried about what would happen if, say, we were involved in an accident. If the van is actually illegal to use, no doubt our insurance would be invalidated as well? Speaking as a survivor from a few appalling road accidents (not my fault, by the by), I've absolutely no interest in driving an illegal rig! I'd rather cancel the deal (and feel like a complete swine for mucking him about! :blush:) & wave goodbye to the £500 deposit Cheers, Iain

Constructor?? Mmm.... Shall certainly give him a ring tomorrow! Think it may be a bit out of my price range though, judging by the others I've seen offered in the last year or so. However, you never know until you ask! Thanks for the tip Mark. Cheers, Iain

:shocked: News to me! Does that mean I need; a) Special permission/escort to tow it? or b) A special type of license? or c) Both!? At the moment, I only have a 7.5 ton. I'm intending to take HGV tests over the next few months though. I've been told that I can technically drive a pre-1960 lorry with said wagon on the license I've got, but it seems to be a bit of a grey area. I've decided to take the HGV just to be on the safe side, & have some drawbar training while I'm at it. I'm not intending to tow the wagon anywhere until I've completed that. If the wagon ever gets delivered that is! The company that're supposed to be delivering it for me are really dragging their heels! A month has passed & they still won't give me a date for the pick-up! Meanwhile, the guy I've bought it off is going spare, 'cos he's supposed to be working in France from last week, instead he's kicking his heels waiting.... Cheers, Iain

N.O.S., I have thought about a TM. Totally capable I'm sure, and a good deal more practical than a '50s lorry. But... it's just... well... I don't know... I suppose I don't want to make life too easy! I'm going to keep looking at older vehicles for now, but the TM's a back-up plan! Funny, but I was intending to give Crouch Recovery a ring tomorrow anyway, about Militants though! Cheers, Iain

Sorry about the delay in answering guys, I didn't realise the thread had actually been posted! Anyway, I think I'm agreeing with everyone as far as travelling speed is concerned. But do the police not order you off the dual-carriageways/motorways if you can't drive above a certain speed (50mph I thought)? The guy I've bought the wagon from used a Magirus-Deutz to pull her with. He guessed the weight of the lorry at about 7.5 tons. I'd have thought it was more like 5/6, & the lorry looks absolutely tiny next to the wagon! I think the Magirus just looks a bit lightweight for the job (it is for sale as well). My planned budget is around £6000, although I could stretch to around £9000 for The Perfect Truck! Ideally I'd prefer a flatbed, for carrying my 13' 4x4. Here are my thoughts on the types I've considered so far. Again, please feel free to correct my guesswork! AEC Matador: Love them! I bought myself one for my 21st birthday. It was then stolen (& probably scrapped) about 4 months later! Very slow on any upward slope & I think the wagon may be a bit too much for one to handle comfortably. AEC Militant Mk I/III: Again, love them! Tempted by a Mk I a few miles away at a good price. I think the same speed issues apply though, 35mph max? Mk IIIs faster, but almost impossible to find other than the recovery version? Forward-control cab a bonus as far as bed length:overall length is concerned. Scammell Explorer: Slower than I'd originally thought, otherwise almost certainly the man for the job! I think I could live with the recovery body on this one! Ural 375/4320: I know, not a '50s Brit, but they seem like pretty capable bits of kit. Petrol 375 hideously thirsty, diesel 4320s expensive to buy. Seems like a bit of a lottery finding a good one. I did have a plan a few years ago, of going to the Ukraine with a chum to buy one & drive it back. I then met a Ukrainian girl. I mentioned this to her & she burst out laughing & spent the next couple of minutes in hysterics!! Her opinion: We'd be eaten alive!! Spares? Zil 131: Good looking things. Underpowered & thirsty with the original petrol engine. I'm looking at one with a turbo-diesel Cummins engine. Worried that the truck itself is a bit lightweight for the job? I think that's about it really. Cheers, Iain :-D