fv1609 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 What, who & when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Some sort of early ultrasound equipment:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Some sort of early ultrasound equipment:confused: Wow that was a quick one when I thought everyone was still lying in, unless of course you are doing both Lee. But nope I'm afraid it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hollow charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hollow charge? Yes it is an extrapolation of a hollow charge, well done. But what is the particular role & method of use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) It's the Off Route Mine, French origin used by UK forces in 70s up until mid 80s although then taught as a foreign mine thereafter. Basically an electrically fired shaped charge that involved a breakwire across a road or area that carried a small charge and a collapsing circuit that fired off the main charge (which formed a copper slug into side of target) good on softskins and a total nightmare to set up with 5 D cell batteries (you had to change them often) The training version fired a sponge which marked the side of the vehicle as a confirmed hit. Used to use it and teach it all way through 70s and 80s - I believe it was brought into service in the 60s Gary Edited November 21, 2009 by gazzaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I believe it was brought into swervice in the 60s Gary By being in swervice do you mean you were taught to swerve to avoid being hit by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 photo also shows the test unit (with a little light for night aiming) an arming plug (safety plug to stop a premature firing) the reel of arming cable and the end cover where you can see four of the batteries housed, the other one was in the test unit. Usually came in its carrier as a pair of them with all accessories and spare spools etc and the bi lingual idiots guide- this was most important part of whole kit as it was extremely difficult mine to set up and disarm Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 By being in swervice do you mean you were taught to swerve to avoid being hit by it? edited due to fat finger typing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I guessed but I just like the new word.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 It's the Off Route Mine, French origin used by UK forces in 70s up until mid 80s although then taught as a foreign mine thereafter. Basically an electrically fired shaped charge that involved a breakwire across a road or area that carried a small charge and a collapsing circuit that fired off the main charge (which formed a copper slug into side of target) good on softskins and a total nightmare to set up with 5 D cell batteries (you had to change them often) The training version fired a sponge which marked the side of the vehicle as a confirmed hit. Used to use it and teach it all way through 70s and 80s - I believe it was brought into service in the 60s Gary Yes well done Gary! A very comprehensive answer. I hadn't realised it went into service with the British Army, let alone there would be someone on the forum who had used it! What I don't understand is that the "actuating loop" across the road is broken by the tank which I thought would detonate it, yet there is little hand operating it as well:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 & here's the Modern version... ARGES Anti-Tank Mine... probably the only one in private hands:-D ARGES is an off-route anti-tank mine, developed by an international consortium to meet the needs of the British, French and German armed forces. The system consists of a rocket and launch tube, a tripod and a sensor package. The sensor package has an acoustic sensor that detects the approach of a suitable target and activates the passive infrared and laser sensors which trigger the launch of the rocket when the target passes in front of it. The rocket uses a modified version of the motor from the LAW 80 anti-tank rocket, and has a tandem HEAT warhead, enabling it to penetrate the side armour of all main battle tanks, including those protected with Reactive armour. The rocket has a range of between two and ninety meters, with the hit probability at ninety meters being 97%. The mine is highly programmable with an active window of between three hours and forty days, to choose a specific target in a convoy, as well as the ability to be re-programmed. The system can also be command initiated. Specifications Weight: 18 to 22 kg quoted. Length: 1.02 m Height: from 230 mm to 700 mm Range: 2 to 97 m Traverse: -45 degrees to + 45 degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Thanks Clive The breakwire was very brittle and was actually 2 thin wires that looked like fishline and was laid either straight across the road or gap either in way shown straight line or zig zagged depending on firmness of ground- also remember nails/pins to allow this to be routed round. It was aimed with a soldier standing in the killing zone and the iron sight on top of the unit being aimed about chest height, sometimes I looked through the middle hole to aim. At night the light from the test unit was held by the soldier and you aimed towards the light. This was before going off to a flank 50m then arming it - the distance was necessary as they were so tempremental and could fire prematurely. Also as it used a collapsing circuit when the batteries ran down they had to be replaced before final discharge of else it went bang when least expected. There was also a back blast safety distance too. Hope this helps forum viewers understand it more- glad when it was taken out of service as it was so non soldier proof and difficult to use/set up and disarm. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re the ARGES the predecessor to this was the LAWMINE which was to take over from off route mine with 2 law 80s mounted on tripod similar to ARGES but never seen it in service only in development as the ARGES was the one that came into replace off route. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Re the ARGES the predecessor to this was the LAWMINE which was to take over from off route mine with 2 law 80s mounted on tripod similar to ARGES but never seen it in service only in development as the ARGES was the one that came into replace off route. Gary Cheers Gary... you're the first person I've come across that has even heard of the ARGES... there's very little info on the web... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) The lawmine was designated the ADDER which was lethal up to 100m http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/garyawallace/?action=view¤t=_F460.jpg the Off Route mine was designated the L14A1 weighing 12Kg from the French MI AC AH F1 http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/garyawallace/?action=view¤t=_F423.jpg From late 80s:- similar new high-tech mines are still under development in other European joint-ventures - such as the ARGES, developed by Dynamit Nobel (Germany)/Honeywell (Germany)/GIAT (France)/Hunting (Great Britain). It is a rival product of the PARM-2 and one of the most modern off-route mines offered to the European market. The one mine costs approximately 12,000 DM. ARGES will be used as a standard NATO weapon, but is not expected to be introduced before 2000. ARGES, like the PARM 2, is an autonomous, sensor-controlled anti-armor weapon, which destroys the target from the side with a hollow charge warhead. The acoustic alarm sensor of the ARGES mine, which can make out close- and long-range targets, can 'hear around corners' and therefore also be deployed in confined areas. A microprocessor calculates the distance, direction, speed and the length of the target vehicle. The length of the vehicle is crucial in deciding whether it is a combat target or not. "The question of how reliably a differentiation on this basis between civilian and military vehicles will work hardly needs to be answered. Then the question of whether for example the ARGES mine can differentiate between various tank models was in fact answered in the negative by a spokesperson for the sensor manufacturers Honeywell (Germany), which also manufactures the PARM sensors. On the contrary, 'no German soldier would be advised to even get close to an activated ARGES mine with his tank'". The ARGES antitank weapon (Automatic Rocket Guardian with Election Sensor) from the family of weapons known as ACEATM (Aimed Controlled Effect Anti-Tank Mine). The system is initiated by an acoustic sensor and a target selection system, while firing is initiated by a passive infrared detection system and laser. more useless info, apologies gary Edited November 21, 2009 by gazzaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Last one, I promise. from Wiki mines The MIACAH F1 (L14A1 in British service) is a French off-route anti-tank landmine. It uses a large Misznay Schardin effect warhead to project a powerful self forging fragment capable of penetrating 70 millimetres of armour at a range of 40 metres. The mine consists of a horizontal cylindrical main body with a large inset plate in the front. The detonator protrudes from the centre of the front plate. The main body is supported on two arms which are attached to a circular base with three stakes. The mine can be triggered by a 50-metre breakwire, command or electronically triggered by an external sensor. The mine is no longer in production, and has been withdrawn from service from the French and British armies. The mine has been reported in Iraq. 1. Specifications Diameter: 200 mm Length: 260 mm Weight: 12 kg Explosive content: 6.3 kg of Hexolite (RDX/TNT mix) 2. References Jane's Mines and Mine Clearance 2005-2006 MIACAH F1 mine at ORDATA L14A1 at ORDATA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Never too sure about everything I read on wiki. Anyway this was it was reviewed in 1969. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzaw Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Couldn't have said it better meself, still a bloody dangerous bit of kit for friend and foe alike. Even a foot patrol could set it off with a large copper slug winging by your head! Glad we got rid of them Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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