25pdr Gun Markings

[25 pounder]

while working on our 25 Pr gun , I noticed that almost every part has a "FL" mark followed by 3 or 4 numbers , some smaller parts have a "C" with couple of numbers , and often , the numbers seem to follow on eachother , such as "FL 2556 , FL2557, FL2558,....."

My questions :

what does "FL" stands for , and should all the numbers be the same on the gun ?

What does the "C" stands for on other parts ?

[Adrian Barrell]

I don't know what the FL stands for, if anything but it is common to other British guns such as 6 Pr and 75mm. It is a part number prefix and the number following it is the number of that part.

 

So no, they should not be all the same number on a gun.

[25 pounder]

Ok , not all the same number , so I'll supose they should follow one upon another.

Do you know anything about the "C" prefix ?

Canadian manufacturing perhaps ?

:tup::

[REME 245]

25 Pounders were manufactured in Canada but if you have the original plates you will know where yours was made.

[25 pounder]

That the gun has been in combat , no doubt about that , because the inner legs of the cradle were filled up with sand (red brown--desertsand ?), Cradle has plate on it , build in 1940 , made by C &T Weir ---Does anyone ever heard about that company?

Barrel may have been changed , breech has markings "H &W" what stands for Harland and Wollf ( didn't know that , been told by Garrison gunner Mike)

but also has a small sign C42 and broad arrow.

Gun has green paint on , but inside has yellow colour under it.

[REME 245]

If the cradle is as early as 1940 the original barrel would not have been fitted with a muzzle brake.

[25 pounder]

I'm aware of the fact , muzlle brakes were not used on the 25 PR until late 1941, that's why I said barrel has been changed ,

[schliesser92]

Barrels were regularly changed, they have a life of so many rounds EFC (Econonic Full Charge - whatever that means!). I think the 25pdr was something like 10,000 rounds.

 

So the muzzle brake doesn't indicate that it was the first barrel change.

[Adrian Barrell]

EFC stands for Equivelant Full Charge. As 25 pdr used incremental charges, records needed to be kept to allow calculation of the EFC and hence barrel life.

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

G & J Weir are still in business. They are a Scottich company who today build pumps and are famous for their steam pumps.

I have a G & J Weir 25 pdr. No 204. The Australian War Memorial has number 504.

My gun 266 was supplied to the Australian 2nd/5th Field Regt. and was one of the very first 25pdrs. supplied to the Australians at Salisbury Plains in July 1940.

Look them up on Google.

regards Rick.

[Mike C]

Gents,

 

EFC = Equivalent Full Charge. The EFC for a particular 'shot fired' varied with (1) the projectile and (2) the powder charge, and (3) the powder type. Some examples:

 

1 Proof Charge = 2 EFC

1 Super Charge firing HE = 4 EFC for Cordite MD, RDB, SC, SCT, W, WM, WT or WMT, or NC Type FNH/DB (call this 'group 1' powders), but only 2 EFC for Cordite AN, NQ, NQ/S, or NC Type NCT, NH, FNH/P (call this 'Group 2 powders').

1 Charge 3 firing HE = 1 EFC for Group 1 powders, or 0.5 EFC for Group 2 powders.

1 Super Charge firing AP Shot = 4 EFC for Group 1 powders, and 2 EFC for group 2 powders.

 

The 'probable life' of a 25-pdr barrel was 20,000 EFCs.

 

The barrel was changed when it (1) reached maximum allowable EFC or (2) when the ovality of the bore reached its wear limit or (3) when other factors came into play, such as damage/corrossion within the bore.

 

At every third barrel change, the breech was also changed automatically, provided the breech was still within acceptable wear limits at each of the two previous barrel changes.

 

Clear as mud!!

 

The Australian War Memorial has several 25-pdr Field Guns:

(1) Mk2 gun of British Manufacture, captured by the Japanese and recaptured at war's end (in storage).

(2) Mk2 gun of early Australian manufacture (riveted trail, cradle: in storage)

(3) Mk2/1(Aust) late production Australian manufacture with all welded trail and cradle (in storage).

(4) Mk2 gun of British manufacture (on display WW2 gallery)

(5) Mk2 Short 25-pdr (on display WW2 gallery)

 

Prefixes on Parts:

 

FL = parts manufactured to UK drawings without variation

CFL = parts embodying Canadian features but still interchangeable with British parts

CGB = parts redesigned to suit Canadian production methods, and not interchangeable with British parts. (There are also CCM, CM, TR, and several other prefixes for parts that fit 25-pdr)

 

Mike C

[Mike C]

Ooops, missed something I should have posted in the last:

 

'The part number incorporates the Vocabulary Section under which the parts are provided, held and issued. Eg:

 

FL = Field and Light Artillery equipment, VAOS Section N1"

 

 

(VAOS = Vocabulary Army Ordnance Stores)

 

Mike C

[25 pounder]

Well done , so if I'm right , by checking out on the serial number , the history of this particular gun should be traceable , as where it has served and with whom ,

thanks a lot for all of this splendid knowledge !

[rnixartillery]

Well done , so if I'm right , by checking out on the serial number , the history of this particular gun should be traceable , as where it has served and with whom ,

thanks a lot for all of this splendid knowledge !

 

All well and good if the information is still held ! your first port of call should be Paul Evans who is the Librarian at Firepower.

I know through tracing the history of some of my Artillery ,it often leads to a dead end.

Good Luck !

 

 

 

Rob....................rnixartillery.

[25 pounder]

Thanks Rob , 'll try to get in touch with Paul Evans , and keep you informed if any progress has been made

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

Gents,

 

 

The Australian War Memorial has several 25-pdr Field Guns:

(1) Mk2 gun of British Manufacture, captured by the Japanese and recaptured at war's end (in storage).

(2) Mk2 gun of early Australian manufacture (riveted trail, cradle: in storage)

(3) Mk2/1(Aust) late production Australian manufacture with all welded trail and cradle (in storage).

(4) Mk2 gun of British manufacture (on display WW2 gallery)

(5) Mk2 Short 25-pdr (on display WW2 gallery)

 

Mike C

 

 

G'day Mike,

 

Do you know the story behind the 25pdr. mentioned in No.(1)?

I think that it would be an interesting story for all.

 

BTW I have recently obtained a striker case etc. for my G & J Weir 25pdr. Still need one for the Short 25pdr. though.

 

Regards Rick.