No Signals Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I suppose as a follow on from the 'passengers in the back question' I posted, how many of you have fitted seatbelts in any seat to older vehicles that by their age do not require them and never had them originally? But you just feel happier in moden traffic conditions (i.e. idiots who nick your braking distance etc) with them fitted. If you have fitted them have you managed a 'discrete job' and what ploys have you used to hide them from sight for shows etc? If answers could tackle the practical points primarily. I dont mind the thread moving in to the 'ethics' of fitting them to old stuff but it primarily is aimed at who has? how did ? and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) I have fitted them in a Series one LR, if you use the type that have clip on fixings (some competition types) all that will show when removed is the eye bolts down beside the seats. Fixed these through the floor and made a steel strap to connect to the chassis underneath. The shoulder fixing will vary according to the vehicle. Not sure about the regulations regarding self fitting, but who cares as long as no one hits the windscreen. Remove them for MOTs to be sure they don't fail inspection, they are a funny lot.. These below are just lap straps from a military ambulance, but clip on. Edited September 19, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) The compuslory fitting and wearing of seatbelts made no improvement in injury rates or severity of injury. The theory goes that Humans like a ceratin level of risk. When driving a vehicle without seatbelts you feel more vulnerable, and consequently reduce speed, and or don't pull out infront of other traffic unless the gap is large. You drive in a style to set your own acceptable level of risk. When seat belts had to be worn, drivers felt more secure, driving felt bland, so the re-acquire the level of risk they felt happy living with, the average speed of traffic rose, and drivers started taking more risks, such as pulling out when the gap between them and oncoming traffic was smaller. The result of fitting seat belts has been to increase the number and severity of accidents, but because people no longer go through the windscreen, or hit their had on the steering wheel, the overall level of injury has remained almost unchanged. When I had my Series 1 and Series 2's i never bothered with seat belts. The choice to fit or not fit is yours but the phychological testing of drivers suggests your standard of driving is likely to fall if you fit them, and the risks you take will be greater. Your chances of being in an accident will rise, but you will be better protected. You will not be statistically any less likely to be injured or killed. Edited September 19, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I was just going to say that after fitting them your driving will change, but Mike has put it better than I would, that's why you should make sure they're secure. There is a theory that a sharp spike fixed to the steering wheel would reduce accidents more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Signals Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 I was just going to say that after fitting them your driving will change, but Mike has put it better than I would, that's why you should make sure they're secure. There is a theory that a sharp spike fixed to the steering wheel would reduce accidents more! I am familiar with, and agree totally with, the six inch spike system, as long as it is everybody else who has to have it fitted:rofl::rofl: I know and understand the theory of the change in style of driving etc that can accompany the wearing of a belt. My issue is not with my driving but with the risky driving styles of others in more modern vehciles who drive them in a manner that endangers me when I'm in in my old 'un. Their style has increased in riskyness irrespective of whether I am wearing a belt or not. Mike's description is absolutely correct but does not take in to account a 'mix'. If you put in the worse case scenario of a lot other vehicles being driven by 'Hot Hatch Craig', driving like a nutter, taking chances because they are wearing belts. One of them hits the odd one out 'you', driving steady and aware of your mortality because you dont have a belt fitted. I suspect it is of little comfort as you lay in your hospital bed knowing that you held the moral and roadskill high ground as you take the next meal through a tube. If everyone was on the same system it would have a use. While ever there is the current mix then I feel that without a belt you are more vulnerable within current road traffic driving standards. That does not in any way dispute the scenario as put by Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) The problem with fitting belts is if you do, then all the fittings must comply with the BS standard. Daft thing is I drive a big red target all day without any belts fitted. I'm sure there is a gene that means some ***** don't see buses. Back to the old, what makes a good driver? The ability to avoid other peoples acidents! My view is that modern vehicles are TO safe, I've got anti lock bracking, tractyion control and the latest Hum Grumet! Trouble is you then drive till the hum Grumet can't cope , so what now? Old vehicles talk to you , if you listen they won't let you get into trouble. Edited September 19, 2009 by Tony B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambo1969 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Must admit, I always wear my seatbelt in the landy, would not fancy hitting the dash at any speed! If i'm honest, I would much rather be in my mondeo in a head on crash than the landy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Mike's description is absolutely correct but does not take in to account a 'mix'. If you put in the worse case scenario of a lot other vehicles being driven by 'Hot Hatch Craig', driving like a nutter, taking chances because they are wearing belts. One of them hits the odd one out 'you', driving steady and aware of your mortality because you dont have a belt fitted. I suspect it is of little comfort as you lay in your hospital bed knowing that you held the moral and roadskill high ground as you take the next meal through a tube. If everyone was on the same system it would have a use. While ever there is the current mix then I feel that without a belt you are more vulnerable within current road traffic driving standards. That does not in any way dispute the scenario as put by Mike. I would not dispute what you say either. To refine what I said, the injury and death rates stated are for periods before compulsory fittingand wearing , and after compulsory fitting and wearing. So, no, it does not truely reflect the situation now where not wearing a seat belt (in smaller vehicles) is an exception. but equally there was an increasing number of cars being fitted with, and drivers wearing seat belts before the legislation, so the imbalance, and the mix of driving styles existed at the time the statistics were gathered. Don't let me influence you. I loved my series one, screen down, blatting down the road, no seat belt, But equally I has involved in a head on crash in a land-rover, (seat belts fitted, and I was wearing them.) Three cars where written off, including the land rover I was in. I walked away with bruised ribs which ached for a week. ( and no vehicle) but One of the other drivers was off work for two years with the injuries they receieved. Seat belts didn't do much for her, but I am sure they saved me from a lot worse than I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Cubed Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Must admit, I always wear my seatbelt in the landy, would not fancy hitting the dash at any speed!If i'm honest, I would much rather be in my mondeo in a head on crash than the landy. Interesting thought, Of Land Rover Series, or Defender type vehicles which drivers have had accidents in, what were the injuries ? and how bad if no seatbelts were worn. Does it come down to being a tough vehicle and using the other vehicles crumple zone as a cushion ? I wold be interested in the statistics for Land Rover accidents !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 A friend has just been involved in a serious head on crash in his 200TDi Disco. He has spent two weeks in the high dependency unit and although now on a ward is likely to be there for several months. He suffered serious foot injuries, broken ribs, crushed lung and two bones broken in his back, the driver of the other vehicle (Fiesta sized) has two broken legs. I have not seen the Disco but a friend who has cannot believe how the driver got out as the footwell and bulkhead have been driven back almost to the seat, the offside front of rhe vehicle has crumpled up right back to the windscreen. When I worked for a Land Rover main dealer we had numerous examples of Defenders being written off in quite low speed accidents due to chassis damage some only a few weeks old. As an example I went out to one of our own new loan vehicles involved in a minor shunt on a country lane, I pulled the bumper and wing off the wheel and drove it back to our yard. It was subsequently written off due to chassis damage although it was a new vehicle with only a few hundred miles on the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan110 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Interesting thought, Of Land Rover Series, or Defender type vehicles which drivers have had accidents in, what were the injuries ? and how bad if no seatbelts were worn. Does it come down to being a tough vehicle and using the other vehicles crumple zone as a cushion ? I wold be interested in the statistics for Land Rover accidents !!!! Look at page 10 of the report and you may suddenly start to feel safe.... http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/vehicles/carsmmrisk/carsmakeandmodeltheriskofdri1800 Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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