Runflat

There was an article on airborne GMCs in Wheels and Tracks magazine #22. Engineering work is said to have started on the project in September 1943 with a prototype conversion kit being delivered in February 1944. Over 7,250 examples were made: 3,880 lwb cargo; 2,497 lwb cargo with winch; 475 lwb cargo/dump; plus over 400 swb types.

Some info these tructors posted here: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...3517-Ford-WOT3

Some vids of a preserved C4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O7og8N0Dqo http://www.streetfire.net/video/morris-commercial_39842.htm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uE6SNrMiWQ&feature=related

...and mentioned here: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?8385-Autocar-U-7144T/page3 (pages 3 & 4)

Incredible. Does he really think it's worth that amount? Of course the really sad thing for him is you pay a listing fee based on the opening price you place on the item. With the chances of him ever selling the item at that price being zilch, he'll be better off just giving it away.

Yikes - a WOT3 for sale! Not seen this one before (PSJ335): http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=53276&cat=3 It looks a good'un.

To keep your interest going then Ted, there's an anecdote at the bottom left of this page: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2162694/pdf/brmedj04050-0026a.pdf Questions in the house: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1941-07-23a.891.8 And another picture: http://popartmachine.com/item/pop_art/LOC+1144657/QUEEN

I've just realised that we have covered this subject before! http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?6559-Different-markings-for-an-OY Some additional information, such as Spurling Motor Bodies coachwork. Do their records survive somewhere?

Thanks Ted - I hadn't thought of the WVS/WRVS archives. I wish I was retired: to do extensive research is a full time job! To my eyes the lettering is brown - which probably explains why the 'battle honours' were to be done in brown. Or do you have something to the contrary?

This is a 1925 DAAG - on pnumatics: http://www.gelbgraumagenta.de/gelbgraumagenta/1_reichspost/daag_kraftpost_1/daag_0.htm One assumes the solid-tyred example is older!

Does the chassis plate have any codes that would tie-in with any of this? http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Homepage_english/Motor_Vehicles/Germany/DAAG/body_daag.html

Simply repeating what's in the report - the reporter could be mistaken in his findings. I've just been searching for photos of DAAGs. All 1927 so far. Will keep looking!

Now you wouldn't be trying to get me into trouble now, would you? The report just shows a close-up of the back wheel (six spoke, cast iron, red colour, no tyres); and a hint of a very similar green wooden structure on top. It goes on to say: DAAG built commercials from 1910 until 1929, after which the factory was taken over by Krupp. The low-level coach chassis of 1925 featured separate drive shafts to each rear wheel (as on the earlier twin-shaft Austin) and this chassis has the remains of the same feature. Your pictures appear to show only the front wheels/axle. Do you have any of the rear? If it's one and the same chassis then it doesn't sound military/WW1.

Tim, I've not heard of DAAF before. The remains of a DAAG (Deutsche Last Automobilfabrik AG) in Lincolnshire was reported in The Automobile magazine, October 1990. Are we talking about the same vehicle or a new find?

What fantstic colour pictures - thanks Ted. I didn't find anything directly on the origins of the colour scheme, although a circular of 30 April 1941 says: "... Vehicles may be painted in Queen’s Messengers Colours only with the prior consent of the Wartime Meals Division. Save in exceptional circumstances, the only vehicles which will be so painted will be those comprised in the Food Convoys..." Having now started this little project, I'm quite keen to find other material that may be available. Plus there are various 'gaps' that would be nice to fill, such as the true origin of the idea for the convoys; and when are where they were deployed in action in Britain (I have some info as to where they were based). I have in mind a few places in Britain where I can do some further digging. But if anyone can add to the picture post dispoal from the MoF, that would be just as interesting - from the sounds of things the convoys would have gained much publicity. Do send me a PM if you have something to offer. Hopefully there's enough info out there to put together a fuller article at some time. Meanwhile, wouldn't it be great to see a replica QMC vehicle on the rally scene - the colours alone would make it something different!

I've been doing some hunting in records at the National Archives - there's a fair bit on the disposal of the QMCs due to the politics of dealing with items donated by prominent people. Very briefly, it seems there were 21 convoys, not 18 as suggested in contemporary publications (and repeated in CMV magazine). A typical convoy consisted of 4x canteen lorries, 2x kitchens, 2x store vans, 2x water tankers, 1x welfare van, 1 x utility vehicle and a dispatch motorbike. Not all the convoys had a welfare van. The water tankers were Guys; the utility a Ford (evidence would suggest WOA2 types); the rest Bedfords - either 30cwt (2 ton) or 3 ton chassis depending on role. I didn't see what the m/cycles were. All the vehicles appear to have been registered in either the CCA or CUN sequence. From one of my reference books, I believe both of these blocks were issued by the County Council of Denbigh. If that sounds a bit strange, it would seem the Ministry of Food, Emergency Services Division was run from the unlikely address of Colwyn Bay Hotel, Colwyn Bay, N.Wales. I don't have a full fleet list but the Guys I've noted had registration numbers CCA990 and CCA992 to CCA996. The only chassis numbers I have are for two of the Bedfords: OXD/15055 (40cwt Food Store Van, CCA665) & OXD/15031 (40 cwt Food Store Van, CCA685). Further digging at the Denbighshire Record Office, Ruthin may yield further results. Anyone want to take up the challenge? The convoys went variously to UNRRA for service in France and Belgium; to the Netherlands for service in Holland; and to South East Asia Command (SEAC) for service in that region. Also a suggestion that at least one convoy spent some time in Norway. Things that caught my eye: 25/6/41: A note says: "Water Tanks. I noted the point you raised in your last letter and will write to Guys on the subject. Our object in suggesting that the vehicles should be stored empty was to save unnecessary weight on the springs..." I couldn't see the outcome! 7/10/41: A note, responding to a request for more utility cars for transporting crew, says: "We had the greatest possible difficulty in obtaining the release of the existing utility vans from an Army Order..." The strong indication was that no further cars would become available. 15/12/41: A circular says: "All major servicing and repairs should be carried out by the manufacturer’s agents. Bedford agents exist in all towns where Convoys are situated. If there is not a Guy agent within reasonable distance, all the Guy vehicles should also be taken to the Bedford agent. The utility vans should be dealt with by the Ford dealers... Vauxhall Motors Ltd. and Guy Motors Ltd. have made arrangements with their agents that the Queen’s Messenger vehicles should receive immediate attention. Lists of their agents with whom these arrangements have been made are attached to this circular... Camouflaging Roofs Since the issue of circular CON.9 it has been decide that the roofs of all vehicles should be painted dark green and brown in camouflage effect; arrangements for this to be done should be made forthwith. The cost should not exceed 35/- per vehicle. Battle Honours Unless the battle honours are already painted on your vehicles the Minister desires that they should be painted as shown on the attached photostat. The “battle honours” on the water tanker should be painted on the door of the cab starting with the driver’s door, and not on the back of the cab as shown in the photostat..." The drawing shows battle honours to be in red letters on a brown ribbon. It also shows how it should be positioned on the different vehicles. 20/10/44: Note says: "It is proposed to withdraw 11 of the 21 QMCs for transfer to the Continent and negotiations with the donors and departments concerned are now proceeding." 3/11/44: Letter from Guy Motors: "Dear Col. Llewellin. Very many thanks for your letter of the 31st ult. and I am delighted to have your confirmation of the good work which I had heard the vehicles of the Queen’s Messenger Convoy have been doing. I note that you are approaching the authorities concerned with supplies with a view to finding out the most effective way the Convoy might be used in the devastated areas of liberated Europe and should it be decided to ship them overseas, if there is any way in which we can be of assistance please do not hesitate to communicate with us. I might add, that the majority of parts which are used in the construction of these vehicles is identical with one of the military types we supplied in large numbers, together with large stocks of spares, and it may easily be that such spares exist in the particular territories to which the Convoy would be shipped. This is just a thought which may be of some assistance. Again thanking you for your letter. Yours sincerely, George (?) Guy." The signature was difficult to read. In retrospect, I'd expect it to be signed by Sidney Guy - mental note to double check sometime. 15/11/44: Letter from Buckingham Palace: "Her Majesty notes the suggestion that four convoys should be made available for the needs of the people of Holland, and the remaining eight for those of UNRRA and accordingly approves this use. The Queen assumes, however, that when you say these “should be handed over to the Netherlands Government” etc., it is not intended to part altogether with these convoys and to terminate their ownership, but only to place them at the disposal of two users who have the expectation of an immediate use of this service. The War is in a state of continual fluctuation – the requirements of tomorrow may be wholly different to those of today – and The Queen cannot but doubt the wisdom which commit one irrevocably today to a plan which might, in the coming months, preclude an even more valuable use. Probably this is not intended, but Her Majesty thinks it well to clear any uncertainty as to what is precisely proposed." Ultimately, they were handed over! 25/4/1945: Letter from UNRRA: "As you know the Ministry of Food have been so good as to give us a number of Queen’s Messenger Convoys and I should tell you what we are doing with them. Eight of these, plus four welfare vans, are being diluted to make sixteen Flying Squads to deal with displaced persons on the Continent. Six of these Flying Squads are to leave this month for Belgium and we have been asked by the 21st Army Group for fifteen more Flying Squads. Pending their use in this way we have loaned two of these eight Convoys to the Belgian Commissariat for Civil Defence and they are working in Antwerp, Luge and Brussels. The remaining two Convoys less their welfare vans are being diluted to form four Feeding Columns which it is hoped to ship during May: Two such Columns will go to Yugoslavia, one to Northern Norway and one to Luxembourg. We have been asked by the Norwegians for ten more Feeding Columns for use in Southern Norway, and I suppose we must expect to get further demands. I am now emboldened to ask whether you can recommend that we should get more. I do so because of our so great need for Europe and I hope you will forgive my making the enquiry." They didn't get the remaining convoys as they went to the Netherlands and SEAC! 9/5/45 Note says: "We have made arrangements for the release of the last four of our Queen’s Messenger Convoys at present stationed at Tunbridge Wells, Chelmsford and London (2) to the War Office for use in South East Asia Command and to the Netherlands Military Administration for relief work in Holland. The Convoys at Tunbridge Wells and Chelmsford are going to Holland, the two London Convoys to SEAC. The Convoys for Holland will be transferred to the Netherlands Depot on Tuesday 8th May. This now disposes of all our Queen’s Messenger Convoy vehicles, with the exception of the motor cycles, which are being disposed of to the Ministry of Supply." 15/5/45 Letter from The British War Relief Society Incorporated of the United States of America: "Thank you very much for your letter of May 7th. I have just returned from my visit to Holland and I can now with complete authority speak of the gratitude of the Dutch for this transportation which you have made available to them... I saw one of the Queen’s Messengers at a village called Ede, near Utrecht, and was told that they were performing invaluable services everywhere..." Well, that just about wraps things up. If anyone would like further information do ask and I'll try and answer, although I may not be able to reply until I've made another visit to the NA. There are also plenty of other files to do with canteen vehicles generally, if that's your bag (but I'm not sure I've got the energy to go through them!). Oh, finally, for Robert, I've found this in my collection:

"90 degree turning radius", "air pnumatic inflatable tyres", "ball bearing wheels" - you just know it sounds good.

The one with arabic plates is up for sale: http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=53143&cat=3 When they describe their PU as a C8, it makes you wonder what else they don't know...

Some WOT3s on film, in some cases only a glimpse. Tructor in the last one: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=22477 http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=23611 http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=38125 http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=54334 http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=55451 http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=60718

Keep an eye on the WOT3 thread: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?13517-Ford-WOT3

Another picture on MLU: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9471 http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14884 And, for interest, a couple of civvy Vixants: http://ccmv.fotopic.net/p51930271.html

Glynn, You've probably seen the photos in Classic Military Vehicle magazine of Guy Vixants belonging to the Queen's Messengers Convoy / Ministry of Food "Food Flying Squad" (June 2002, p59 & Feb 2003, p4-6). As a brief reminder, I attach a couple of photos from my collection, which I lent for the article; and one of one of the Bedfords now in UN Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) markings. I suspect the same fate befell the Guys. (As an aside, I note that Czechoslakia received Guys from UNRRA - Wheels & Tracks magazine, #56, p23.) If I'm not mistaken, another picture of this convoy hangs on the wall of the MV museum at the Hop Farm, Beltring. I've also a vague recollection that I've seen a picture of a Vixant in AFS/NFS markings, but may be mistaken.

A short film of The Queen's Messengers - http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12584

I don't know whether you've seen this before, it may be of help: http://www.simplywizard.co.uk/index.htm

I'd echo Robert's plea for any official documentation that can seal the question. For what it's worth, I've always been a bit uneasy with T=Truck as 'lorry' would have been a more normal term in contemporary British English. Other suggestions I've seen include T=Type or Transport. But I'm not convinced about those either. ...and while we are at it, can we nail WOC and WOA as well? (From memory I've seen C=Commercial and A=Auxillary suggested in the past.)