Snapper

copy of illuminated scroll issued to relatives

grave registration card

Three more letters from NCOs and chums No 2035 No 2 Coy British Expeditionary Force, August 27th 1915 Dear Mrs Barnes, No doubt by now you have heard the terribles news of the death of dear old Leslie. It was a great shock to me. I can more than appreciate the grief of you - his mother. You have the heartfelt sympathy of myself and all here who knew him. I was about the last one to talk to him and on the Sunday night I was with him for an hour or so in a farmhouse at the rear of our dug-outs. We talked of you all at home and he was very pleased having just heard that his father was very much better in health. They had been shelling us very heavily off and on for two days and early on the Monday morning they started again sending over large shells by the dozen.. One of these fell in the dug-out occupied by Leslie and two others killing the three of them. I was on the spot some few minutes after he was dug out and saw that his personal effects were all hand over to the right quarters. His was a merciful death and he could not have known anything. He looked quite peaceful as if asleep. They buried him on Tuesday in a Soldiers grave with a cross and "Killed In Action" inscribed. I know the exact position of his resting place should you after the war care to see it. His Officer wrote you the same day I understand his photo has been sent to the Territorial Gazette, Well, Mrs Barnes, he died gloriously and heroically for the noble end to be and if I am to die out here, I only trust I may be measured out such a speedy and merciful end. You have the heartfelt sympathy of all the boys who knew him anbd who wish me to convey these, their sentiments to you in your terrible trouble, My regards and best feelings to you. George Jackson. No 2082 D Coy 16 Platoon, 2nd London Regt August 25th/1915 British Expeditionary Force. Dear Mrs Barnes, It is with the greatest sympathy that I write these few lines to you. You will have received Lieut de Vane's letter telling you of the sad but noble end of your son Leslie. There was nobody better liked or more popular than him and his loss is greatly felt. I am enclosing the cap badge that he has worn, thinking you might like it. In writing these few lines I tender the deepest sympathy of the whole of his chums in D Coy. in your great loss. W. Mowbray. Pte RA Lawence 2356 D Coy 2nd London Regt BEF. Dear Mrs Barnes and All, You must excuse the liberty we are taking in writing this note. As your son Leslie were a chum of ours and a parcel as come for Him. The Batt. not returning them so our Officer handed it to us stating that he was sure Leslie would have done the same. We feel the loss of Him and deeply regret having to write such a note as this, for your son was one of the Bravest and most cheerful chums we will ever have. We all know what a great blow this must have come to you all, but your son died a Soldier and not a SHIRKER. We now conclude trusting you all are in the very best of health, and also you will not be offended at us writing. We are yours sincerely Pte RA Lawrence, L Cpl W May, Pte RE Hallard.

more treasure The letters read: 23.8.15 Dear Mrs Barnes I much regret to have to inform you that your son has been killed out here with us. He was asleep in his dugout when a large shell entered it and blew it up. Death must have been instantaneous. We dug him out and have buried him decently with a cross. I particularly feel his loss as for some time he has been acting as a servant and has always proved most cheerful and willing. Any personal effects will in due course reach you. Please accept mine and all his comrades sincerest sympathy and remember he died doing his duty. Rupert Sneath Captain. 2nd London Regt 23.08.1915 Dear Mrs Barnes it is with much sadness that I send you the only consolation possible with regard to the death of your son Leslie. He as killed almost instantaneously with two others. He was asleep when it came, and probably knew nothing about it but just continued his sleep. He was one of he best boys we have had, liked by everyone for his quiet disposition and devoted to his duty. I am sure it will ve a great consolation to you to know that his name goes down on the Roll of Honour of those who have given their lives for their Country. We all send you our sympathy in your loss. John de Vane. Lieut.

Les

Fairly typical. No worries. But please let us know what you think.....

All valid comments in recent posts after my late night rant. Not much more to add - but feel free. It's a free country!! (currently).

Good stuff.

Agreed. How do we know they didn't give him the flipping coins??? He was actually making ID tags; but he was sammied. Never give a sucker an even break. Journalists rule number one. I know I've worked with them since 1975.

Good points. The book is called Achtung Schweinhund by Harry Pearson. It is next in line on my shelf. I will do one of my poncey reviews forthwith. I agree about the war crimes aspect. Who could show them. Remember all the fuss on this forum when we had an American kid on who's re-enactor group in the States did a prisoner murder scenario??? Uproar HMVF style. GreatWarTruck may recall - he and I were quite vocal. Sweeney was not at the Swamp for the Stockade battle. I listened in on the briefing. The "Germans" refused to take part in the battle which was intended to end with the US MPs shooting a few surviving huns who had killed their mates. The idea was dropped and the battle went ahead. There was no fuss, no silliness - the idea was put forward, they said no. Mutual Respect all round. They were being professional. I really appreciated the whole way it was discussed and put to bed. The show will go on.

Interesting comments from everyone. I was appalled to see David Irving had attended peddling his filth. He should have been ejected. The Belsen trolley - what a pile of crap. Who would buy it. Only a-holes. Trouble is Beltring is a jam-jar for them. It was a shame there wasn't a balanced coverage of much of the other periods covered beyond the little intro. But that wouldn't make a show. I realise now I was on top of the very cagey film crew for some of the days. They didn't like me being near them wearing my Press Team shirt during the woods battle with the Paras shown. I thought I'd appear in shot. But no!..not yet. The veteran was interesting. There were five in the arena for the battle on Sunday. I didn't ask what they thought. What difference would it make? I was sorry that Sweeney's interview with Rex was not used - but not sure if Rex was. I'll ask him. In the end the disclaimer sounded like the sort of stuff you get in a mobile phone commercial. Mealy-mouthed. It did the show no credit and it wasn't designed to. So, where do we go from here? I love Beltring. I like snapping the "Germans" though I've never made any pretence that I don't like them much as a concept - not the people - I barely know any of them. I can understand why people "might" choose the sexier German get ups to the sack of poo look of British wool serge uniforms. I wouldn't wear either - not for political or wool allergy considerations - and I have no right to anyway - yuck to both. But hey - the wool serge won!! God Bless them - ordinary people beat an atheiest murderous master race. Let it not be forgotten - we know it isn't - but you know what I mean.I do not like seeing the Hitler Youth and agree in many ways with the notion Sweeney's tame German historian made that the event doesn't teach us anything. But dow we need a load of anorexics struggling around in striped pyjamas to make a crude point? NO. Do we need some sort of platform for the Holocaust memorial groups?Maybe. The documentary spoke of a ban of Nazi symbols. I would not like to see the EU ban Nazi symbols, because they'd have to ban the Hammer and Sickle, too and believe me there are enough people who would soon hustle out our Union Flag thanks to Ireland, the Empire, slavery, opium, tea, football hooliganism, the Black and White Minstrel show and ...............(add your own). It's a circus. I've been to Le Paradis and Esquelbecq where SS troops massacred British POWs. They are places that break your heart. I haven't been to Auschwitz, I haven't been to Oradour.My wife has been to Dachau...It is etched on her soul. Markheliops sought balance talking about the brutality of the victors in WW2 and what has gone on since - damned right. I support the bomber war entirely - but the terrorfleiger won and in another scenario would have been on trial. I agree with Mark: we need to strike a balance. But we cannot allow even a hint of neo-nazism to infiltrate our hobby, which is not what any of us wants. If Sweeney did us one service, and I say IF; it was to send a bat up the nightdress of the sleepy notion of mild eccentricity that I have enjoyed for some years, and probably share with others. There are flies in the ointment-(my dad had another term - n... in the woodpile, how ironic for a man who had fought Nazism and was a card carrying communist - (but hey, they were worse racists in many ways) - and we need a clean hobby. Personally, I think we DO have a clean hobby, in the main, and I do not know what the re-enactor groups, the show organisers and perhaps even the MV clubs can do about it. Not much - but they need to show some effort. No more Irvings, no more Auschwitz souvenirs and no more neo-nazis would make a lot of sense. Watch this space. If you saw the end of the documentary just after the racist rants in the beer tent, you would have seen two blokes chatting in the throng of Gingers. Me and a photographer friend. To be honest, I am more worried about that nano-second of TV exposure than anything else the Sweeneys of this world can do. Guilt by association is a terrible thing. Even when it is totally unwarranted. See all of you at Beltring next year. I won't surrender to bigots or sensationalists.

These short film are always interesting and welcome additions to a library. There are some odd British films such as Words For Battle, using classic poetry to evoke valour in early war Britain, it finishes with Covenanter tanks rumbling round Parliament Square in London. They were about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Objective Burma is not a universally popular film in the UK to this day and did no good for Errol Flynn's reputation here because it smacked of American gung ho success in a war closely associated with British forces. It's perhaps all too long ago to worry about now - but my dad would never have the film on when it was on TV ..but he was not the most pro-American of people at the best of times. Ronald Reagan also turns up in the Hasty Heart with Richard Todd - a little gem.

Lee - you are bit correct and a bit incorrect about records. The army records destroyed in Bermondsey during the Blitz were not all lost - as you say an average two thirds is often quoted. The medal cards come in various conditions, depending on how much burn or water damage they suffered. The majority of medal cards for "soldiers who died in the war" and many who lived on, survived in some form. It is true that a lot was lost. But it is a lottery. I have never tried because I don't need to. Guards units and 99% of officer records were kept entirely separately and the Royal Artillery have separate records - but these are kept at Firepower and are - shall we say - in a transitory state in some cases. Like everything else, all these records rely on an index card system and the RA's has been shuffled, or so I am told. Commonwealth War Grave records are entirely separate and bear no link to the army records in terms of any official cross referencing. This is why there are occasionally gaps and errors on the CWGC register which was begun by the Army Graves Registration unit under command of Major General Fabian Ware which eventually became the Imperial War Graves Commission. Mark is right, you need to be able to narrow down a list of names down to a date, corps or regiment - and it appears your needs are more family tree orientated to surmise a place of birth and likely place of domicile close to where he may have enlisted. The pennies are useless for real info - you just get a name - but you have a cover, which is stunning. I've never seen one. There is a lot you can do to find out who your man is. I'll try and help you if I can whenever we have any spare time! Mark

Welcome!! A Saracen - blimey! The PW crew are alive and well. Our corner of the clubhouse has electric power and flushing toilets - which as newbie, you must keep clean until further notice. It goes with the territory, Once you've made enough posts you'll be given your own mop. It's great here. Keep your hands off my Custard Creams.

The 1st Special Service Force - the Devil's Brigade - are mentioned in the recent Anzio book I reviewed. There are websites devoted to them. The unit featured in John's superb write up are different. I haven't seen the classic old war film with William Holden for some time. More cheese!

Nice to see Pat keeping himself busy.

Andy, Once you've read it - please give us a more indepth opinion. I think there is mileage in drawing attention to this sort of old book, many of which are long out of print. If it has an illustrated cover could you perhaps post a snap. Mark

This is a day late due to a system problem at work - but I wanted to record the 92nd anniversary of the death of my Great Uncle Leslie Barnes, a private in 16 platoon, D Company, 2nd Bn London Regiment, who was killed at Hooge, near Ypres on 23.08.1915. Les was in a dugout that received a direct hit from a shell and was killed instantly. He is buried along with two other men, PJ Ryan and Fred Lunn at Divisional Cemetery on the Dikkebush Rd, which is west of Ypres. Les was 20 and came from Stoke Newington. He was a Territorial and had been in Malta before the Bn were sent to Flanders. When my aunt Jean developed Alzheimers disease she allowed me to take all family photos and memorabilia into my care because she knew she was doing odd things (she threw out all her cutlery service knives - or sent them off for sharpening. We have never recovered them and have three or four sets of spoons and forks). Among the stuff are pix of Les in Malta and somewhere on active service. I have two different Grave Registration Cards which are illustrated, a colour illustration of the cemetery and copies of letters sent to my great-grandmother by Les's company and platoon officers, his platoon sergeant and three of his mates. Pure treasure. I've also got his 1914/15 Star and his 'Dead Man's Penny' which I found by chance in a bureau draw. All casualties of the war had one of these issued to next of kin and a great many were thrown away as the recipients were insulted. I've just learned that early examples were made at Woolwich and have a W stamped on the back. Scrolls of honour were also sent to next of kin, but Les's disappeared along with the cap badge he wore which was sent to his mum. I got a repro of the scroll from a book shop in Ypres. Once my Apple Mac has been fixed at work, I will post up the pix of Les, and the memorabilia I copied to share with you. I hope you don't mind me posting this personal tribute to him. Shame modern technology conspired to muck it up.... My aunt Jean, who was 84, became very frail and died the Friday after Beltring, hence my long absences from the forum before my family escaped for a holiday, She was my last link with my Barnes family and this is a very sad thought. They're all gone.

Good luck Joris. You are a genius, so there is no doubt in my mind you'll be employed in no time. Best wishes, Mark

You were too busy driving Stryker James about.

When I get a spare minute I'll post some HMVF pix on the site..... mega bust at the minute. MB

Sorry I missed your birthday, Mark; I was too busy talking bollo' on other threads. The thing about the late forties is you only have so long before you can't pick your age as a lottery number. I'm 48. One year to go....I can be patient.... I gather Bodge has eaten all the Custard creams and made a terrible mess in the washroom. Have you been giving him your lager again Joris??????? You were warned.

I'm not sure how you got a Jimmy into the washroom. Last time I looked it was full of the Essex mafia PW kit. My Iltis definitely needs a wash and brush up and Stryker always needs a bath and a haircut. The scruffy git is making the place look just like his bedroom at home. The best thing about the mess is his mum barely noticed the AK47. If you're ever looking for coathangers they all go to die in James' bedroom. It's like an elephants graveyard in there. He needs a shovel and a big bucket for his birthday (Sunday). Custard creams all round.

You're not wrong there mate. I'm in that line of business myself. It pays the mortgage - but after 20 odd years is bloody boring..,,at times.. Mark, does this mean my snap of you with the WLF at Beltring prize giving with a Spitfire passing over is of no interest??? MB