Snapper

PW is best. Don't listen to the lost souls from the Bocage. By the time they've all saved Ryan's privates their motors will be dust. Be sensible, start off in the modern world. My vehicle has gears that work and seats for all the occupants. It doesn't go at the moment, but that is another story. Collect your rubber gloves for sports hall bog cleaning duties from Jack. He'll explain. If he makes any promises about Dancing Girls, ignore him. Joris hasn't returned them since his last booze cruise to Rotterdam.

HMVF don't do portaloos. But if they did they would be the most .........(add your own) in the world. Competition. Fill in the best suggestion and win some free Vim for the ladies powder room.

Cause and effect is the theme of this whole thread, isn't it? Two more killed in Afghanistan today. I'll continue the poetry after a fashion If they ask us why we died, Tell them that our fathers lied (approx) Rudyard Kipling. The same man who wrote all that doggerel verse in praise of British Imperial might. I'm not knocking him - the Empire to me should be cherished for what it made of our country. He never forgave himself for the death of his son John - My Boy Jack (soon to be played by Daniel Radcliffe AKA Harry Potter). Raymond Asquith was broken by guilt for the death of his son Bim, buried at Guillemont. But the current crop have no sons to offer up to the nation. They use other peoples, and here is the difference There was a socialist who wrote poetry at the Centerprise book centre at Dalston in London E8 where I grew up and a verse of his I can remember went along the lines of Tory or Labour, they both hate your neighbour.... How true of politicians - not just in Britain - think of all the solidly patriotic/ in need of a job (or simply, hope) young people from the working class in the USA who have died in huge numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan for the vanity of their political class. All countries are the same. But the game will continue. I joined the army as an escape from the drudgery of my life. I met miners and skilled people, dimwits and lost souls like myself looking for a new sense of purpose. This is what the armed forces provide and this is what the politicians need to fuel their ambitions and fill their memoirs. Soldiers are the footnotes.

Arnhem is the major place missing in my battlefield tour wishlist. Maybe 2008 will be my year.

Ok, My main error was to suggest the chunnel is £39 - it is £49. But having said that we could do a good day's Flanders intro. Mad, but fun. Quite obviously we are lucky to have Tony B with us because he is an experienced WW1 chap. I have been building on my experience and between us we should be able to do something good. My initial thought was to make this a day trip, which is an introduction more than anything else. It may be that this sort of visit is more than enough for most. Thanks to everyone offering vehicle space. If we are going for the day we would definitely be better off going in civvy machines for the sake of time and efficiency. Not sure how the Ypres/Ieper burghers would cope with an army convoy rumbling into the Market sq on a saturday. But if you want to do things in a more advanced way, this will take extra planning. I have only ever stayed in Ypres at the Ariane, and don't know other hotels. They all sound ways of racking up expenses for what is meant to be a cheap fun day out. I've discussed the idea with my mates in Southend and they are keen to attend. But as said, with Tony on board - potentially, I feel he would bring another level of knowledge we would all benefit from. I haven't got a clue what I am doing in November, let alone 2008 - so I think it best we look in general terms at the calendar and go from there. I once went to Ypres on January 2- a bank hol in England that year. It was freezing, but the skies were clear as a bell and the effect was amazing. Everything in Ypres was open and we enjoyed a brilliant day, which actually started at the cemetery in Dunkirk. You can do a lot, because once local, the miles to travel are minimal. So, watch this space....but let me know of any definite no-no dates. Thanks for the response... Mark

Welcome to the forum, This is the home of the Pig, we have several owners who will offer you plenty of assistance. As a new member of the forum you will need to check through the rules and regulations and you will see in subsection 36B, conventions paragraph 55, that you have to clean the clubhouse toilets for two calendar months. At the end of which you will receive your own cloth. Jack Beckett will send you an autographed photo of himself once the film has come back from the chemists.

Forgot to mention the guns are made by Vickers - no less!!

Thanks!! Didn't find anything like it on Majorca, but I did find a curious sign with Nazi emblems on. Will post when I've put on to a disk. Hope you enjoy your fortresses. MB

Is it a memory card problem? If so be careful the camera doesn't want you to reformat the card and wipe all the contents. If it's a stuck film problem then take it in to a decent shop and get them to remove the film in darkness.

Lucky sod. So, when are we all going in our charabanc?

Tony and Tim are absolutely correct in every sense. Dusty Warriors is a classic. Add to it Tim Collins book and you cannot go wrong. To my shame I have never read either of Sassoon's war memoir books. This will be recitified. The poppy is a thank you, nothing more - a million times over.

I have my moderator's hat on here: This is a top quality thread with highly responsible answers to a fair question. I don't wear uniforms; was a soldier and was awarded no medals. I heartily agree with the overiding sentiment that wearing the uniform is fine - unmerited medals are another matter. Post up some pics of you in your uniform and wear it with pride. That is to say pride in yourself for daring to be different and making a statement about your interests. Party on! There are no sheep on HMVF.

While it is difficult to want to give Douglas Haig a big kiss, he has to a massive extent been the victim of a machine working against him with impunity since his early death in 1928. He was an ambitious staff officer and a very singular minded cavalry soldier. Some might say dim - but this is often the view of revisionists. He could be unimaginative, and as a loyal follower of the principles of Lord Roberts he could not be expected to be anything other than a nineteenth century soldier. Haig saw the modern world in South Africa and what was happening to any current notions of war fighting. The machine gun and even the full effect of efficiently used bolt action rifles had not truly sunk home to anyone developing British military thinking, certainly not his main rivals, such as Smith-Dorien, Gough or Wilson. There is no evidence he enjoyed sending thousands to their deaths but there is ample evidence that he did not command enough and rein in the general officers below him at division, corps and army level who were capable of killing thousands through a mix of ignorance, indifference or idiocy. He allowed them too much latitude. He was not a micromanager. He wanted weapons to win the war and he wanted lots of men. This seems only fair. He can hardly be compared to the old world ignorance of his predecessor John French. Haig represented everything that the likes of Lloyd George hated. He was a lowland Scot of strong religious principle. He was army to the core and did not do politicians (not to say he did not do politics). He was a snob and aloof. He knew a man on the make when he saw one. He had the measure of, but not the muscle to handle a sneaky old shark like Lloyd George. The plain fact is that the CIGS and two prime ministers had ample chance to remove Haig before Passchendaele or March 1918. They did not do so. He argued for total war on the western front where Germany had to be beaten. He was right in this respect. But he lost the battle against intriguing politicians and fellow soldiers. He had a difficult relationship with the French, not helped by the machinations of Henry Wilson, who was far too a Francophile for his own country's good. Haig was not a man who made friends. Haig died in 1928 and has been the easy butt of every historian since who has wanted to beat the class war drum or re-awaken the lions and donkeys dogma beloved by 1960s revisionists. In the end we have to ask not whether he was a good general but whether there was anyone else who could have done better - and by better we mean humane leadership of the three British armies fighting on the Western Front. This is doubtful. Rawlinson planned the Somme (with key errors demurred by Haig), Gough commanded his front on the disastrous 21.03.1918. Plumer "The soldier's general" was just as brutal. Wilson was a burocrat - not an army commander. There was no one else. In the end you have to separate Douglas Haig from the poppy appeal. The poppies don't carry Haig Fund on them anymore anyway. He was the BEF commander. He was not immediately hated by the rank and file when they got home. They marched past the Cenotaph year on year, not for him, no army does for any general alone, they marched for themselves, for their friends, for an ideal. I do not suggest you do not appreciate or concur with this. Haig was a figurehead, nothing more. A sense of guilt would not have occurred to him or any other commander of his age - not Foch, certainly not Nivelle, none of the Germans or Black Jack Pershing. You mentioned Charteris, a flawed man who acted as Haig's intelligence chief. He is known not to have passed on inconvenient information to Haig directly responsible for losses in battles. He may have been his friend in one sense, but he was not in others. In the end the buck stops with Douglas Haig. I personally think he was flawed and out of his time even in 1914 - but he was not alone. He won't be rehabilitated as such, because so few people actually care. He may not fully deserve it. To my mind the Cenotaph and the poppies and monuments reflect the guilt of the whole establishment. They wanted the war, they got one. They lived the enormous lie. Some so called influential people knew it at the time but were powerless. Junior officers like Sassoon could hardly change the world and the Bloomsbury set etc were just leeches. They were probably worse than the war leadership. We are left with odd bits of poetry cherrypicked to bang a very specific drum. To me the poppy is what you want it to be, so you are perfectly entitled to associate it in a "negative" way with the failings of Douglas Haig. But the blame needs to be spread much wider than him, in truth. He was just a fixture of a whole mindset of establishment thinking from Whitehall to Windsor Castle. The poppy isn't Douglas Haig's apology. His name was on the fund to give it a focal point. Thousands of veterans mourned his death. History has revised this point for the sake of the class struggle and to switch the blame from all the others. Look at the politics of our modern conflicts and you'll see nothing much has changed.

That may be so, but you were seen doing wheelies on one of the pool tables. A whole new meaning to kissing the pink.

Jack - give me a name and a place of burial/memorial and I'll try and pay a visit for you when I'm on the Somme in October.

As said - date will have to be in 2008. My diary is full until then. But I wanted to get a sample of who would come. Taking MVs is an interesting concept worth considering. The hotel I've used in Ypres is the Ariane, which is well known on the battlefield circuit. I think it best to leave this until after Xmas to plan - but atleast I know some of you want to come. My mate John is definitely up to help with guidance - not that you all need it. More anon

Sorry Gerald, all new members have clubhouse cleaning duties during their probation period. Feel free to start in the Moderator's bath house annexe.

Welcome Dakman. Have fun.

Welcome Gerald. The cleaning roster will be sent to you shortly.

Thanks Nebraska! There are some books you can still get on Amazon. I haven't read them myself.

Indeed. There are some lovely memorials from Llandudno there. 210 AT RA were a TA regiment, I think and the batteries had men from Birmingham and all over the Midlands. as well as Wales.

Greetings Can anyone who I've promised pix from Bolero, Beltring or Odyssey (etc) send me a PM of what I promised and a postal address. If there are lots of snaps I'll post a disk. If it's a frame, I'll email. But I will need postal addresses or email addresses from you. I've been up in the air for several weeks with family stuff, holiday and some ongoing crap health and I am trying to clear my admin. I do not like making promises I don't keep. Poor show. Jack - you wanted HMVF shoot pix G503 - you wanted the Chevy snap from Beltring Markheliops - I've got several of your motor at the prize giving etc TootallMike - I've several of your WLF and CVRT Safariswing - I've got millions of your Fox any other requests always given priority.. MB

definitely. PM me with an address and I'll send you a disk of all my WW1 related pix from Odyssey. You can skim off what you like for the German chappies. Mark

I think i'm on my seventh time. It is truly the most amazing experience, as I am sure you know. I've even been there when a Glasgow Orange Order band were there laying a wreath and playing the old tunes of another conflict. King Billy lived that day. In the dead of winter, when the coach parties are absent and there are maybe only two trumpeters and a thin crowd - it can be wonderful and really eerie and poigniant. Best of all, you can hit the bars for hot chocolate after - or even a shandy for the boozehounds - wonderful. I think I could live in Ypres or nearby. But the Belgian drivers would kill me in short order. Bonkers. I had never thought of taking an MV convoy to Ypres. What a wonderful idea. Landies, Iltis!!!!, etc in a convoy. That would have to be a weekender to allow for travel time. May be better do it on the ferry to save money in that case. Who knows, this might be an idea. You're correct about wreath laying. Have to book months in advance. What a nice idea. Never considered it. Will investigate. Jack would have to smarten up a bit. Now you've got me thinking.........

MorrisC8FAT on this forum would have a better idea because I think he is related to the owner, (sorry if I'm wrong D!) The guy has two different Mungas, a 4 and an 8, if I'm right. One of which is very rare. I'm not a Munga guru. I didn't snap them Saturday because the sun was in the wrong place, James was impatient to move on and there were two blokes having a very close look who were not in a hurry. I've got other Munga snaps somewhere in my library, what are you looking for????